WF or DT? - Which can you cast farther?

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Randy

The XXD (Now replaced with the ED) had different headlengths, depending on linesize.

The ED in a 5 has a 68 feet 4 incehs head, when it replaced the xxd they made the rear taper 5 feet longer

Cheers
Lasse

[slack]

How does the double taper compare against the WF in a single hand switch cast or any spey cast for distance. and if superior do you think their may be a surge in DT lines in the future. slack

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Larry

For unhindered all out distance, the DT goes further in the right hands. But there is a reason why WF ar more popular I don't foresee a sudden boost in DT sales, it's not new

Cheers
Lasse

[slack]

Lassie S H Spey may not be new but where I am from I would bet less than 5 % know anything about them or use any of the casts. I find with our summer wall of vegetation on many of our streams and Spring ponds , I don't know how I made it before I discovered them. That being said, I thought DT would catch on like crazy. Do you upline your DT's when Speying .Thanks for your replay. Slack

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Larry

I'm not sure you understood me

There's nothing new about DT's, they have been around about as long as speycasting.

If it's all about full blown distance with no restrictions in backcast space etc. then a DT will also win over the WF in the hands of a capable caster.
Sincve we very rarely have those conditions and abilities, the shorter line is a much better bet.
If you're really restricted in backcast space, get a short shootinghead.

Cheers
Lasse

[slack]

Lasse thanks for answer slack

[randyflycaster]

I've never heard of a DT line being used in a Spey/Switch rod.

I'm curious to know if it sometimes is.

Randy

[Malcolm]

Randy,

DT line was the traditional line for all spey casting here in Scotland until comparatively recently. Some people including myself still use them for swinging (almost) fixed length casts of up to 105ft or so. I would think that the change to spey lines only happened as late as 2000 and for the next few years there was an increasingly rapid change. Speaking for myself I will lift about 80ft of line and shoot about 20ft and for many of our rivers that is sufficient. It has the advantage that not much line needs to be stripped at the end of the cast. It's not for every situation of course but I still find a use for it.

[Ben_D]

Hi Malcolm,

How many days a year would you think you fish in such a way? I love fishing a long line, great fun in the right situation but I only find myself in a situation where a long head (Carron 85 or similar) is not a ball ache for about 6 days a year tops. Beauly town water, odd day on the lower Tay, very odd day on the Spey and a few days on the right bits of the Dee would be about it.

You coming up to Aberdeenshire for the gathering this year?


Cheers

Ben

[randyflycaster]

Interesting. I'm in the eastern U.S. where Spey fishing is relatively new. When I got into spey fishing I never heard about spey anglers using DT lines.

Randy

[Malcolm]

Hi Malcolm,

How many days a year would you think you fish in such a way? I love fishing a long line, great fun in the right situation but I only find myself in a situation where a long head (Carron 85 or similar) is not a ball ache for about 6 days a year tops. Beauly town water, odd day on the lower Tay, very odd day on the Spey and a few days on the right bits of the Dee would be about it.

You coming up to Aberdeenshire for the gathering this year?


Cheers

Ben

Maybe about 10 sessions - I seldom fish full days. My usual fishing and the fishing I really love is on rough spate rivers but I do fish wider rivers with less variable flows from time to time. I've also fished these waters with an 18ft rod and 95ft head but that's because I like fishing the big rods rather than because there is any real need for it!

Sadly I won't manage up to the meet this year. There always seems to be something else on and that is a particularly busy time of year for me.

[slack]

Randy although I have a switch rod ,I never cast it with one hand. I fish a skajit short head with a sink tip. I use it to fish Steel head only. 90 percent of my fishing is SH rods for Trout and many days I only make spey casts. I haven't use DT but wonder if they maybe better for SH spey casts ,that's why I asked . At present ,I use WF and what the rod calls for, but find that if I up line by 2 wgts if I am just going to spey and haul, I do better with the up line. My real question was, would I still do even better with a DT? I don't own any DT's and I didn't want to buy any, if their is no gain .Thanks slack

[crunch]

A "spey" line or -shooting head is better for spey casting because its rear half is heavier (up to 2/3 of total head weight) than the tip.

It is easier to lift to a new cast. Heavy rear absorbs cast energy efficiently and lifts line from anchor which is not "perfect". Thin and light running line shoots better than the level of DT. Line loop becomes narrower the more overhang is used because rod counter flexes less and /or counter flex does not pull line head downwards too much when there is lighter running line between head and rod tip.

Esa

[Malcolm]

A "spey" line or -shooting head is better for spey casting because its rear half is heavier (up to 2/3 of total head weight) than the tip.

It is easier to lift to a new cast. Heavy rear absorbs cast energy efficiently and lifts line from anchor which is not "perfect". Thin and light running line shoots better than the level of DT. Line loop becomes narrower the more overhang is used because rod counter flexes less and /or counter flex does not pull line head downwards too much when there is lighter running line between head and rod tip.

Esa

Yet that in itself means less flexibility. For example the Rio Steelhead works perfectly with a 48ft lift. However on shorter lifts - say 25ft - as we often require in practical fishing much less weight will be available as there is so much bias towards the rear taper. I have often thaought that for practical fishing a long level belly of about 45 ft or so then we would have the best of both a DT and WF. (I for one can't lift more than about 48ft into a Dloop with a single handed rod 9.5 ft rod when I am wading). Then we have the advantage of thin running line for the shoot.

[Bernd]

I heard Steve Rajeff say that many good casters can cast farther with a DT line than with a WF.

And which line can you cast farther: a WF or DT?

Thanks,

Randy

For unhindered all out distance, the DT goes further in the right hands. But there is a reason why WF ar more popular

Hi Randy,
Lasse (and others) have already made a lot of good points.
Yet am missing wind!

Having a tailwind many casters loose length of possible carry in their back cast. Without a long carry the DT has no change in shooting on distance compared to a WF. The WF has a thinner shooting line and will simply outshoot the DT.
Only if one can realize a huge line carry before shooting the DT has its plus on distance.
But even for the best there comes a point when the carry will decrease in heavy wind. That is when the WF may bring more distance.

Related to the "average fly fishermen" and all fishing situations (limited back room, hight increasing banks, heavy winds and so on) I think most casters prefer a WF on distance simply because it shoots better and therefore means more distance.

DT = huge carry first and then shoot less distance
WF = shorter carry first and then shoot more distance

Which finally goes furthest depends on many things, but often the WF has it's benefits in fishing - below or above the tip that is.

Greets
Bernd