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Topic: C & R, A contentious issue!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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An Griannach Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,01:18  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Had to take this one elsewhere-
myself and flyfishfairwx got the boot from the photography section with this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Certainly a controversial one this!
I take it I'm the only one who's taken a salmon for the pot!
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flyfishfairwx Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,01:44 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

No I don't think that you are...

On this side of the big pond we can keep the juvenile Atlantic's but only in a slot size... and have to pay extra.. very few do this... we have had it pounded into our heads that there is not enough Atlantic's and there are less and less every year..

BUT (and there is always a but) on your side of the pond the fishing for adult Atlantic's has not stopped...

Taking hen salmon just does not compute to me...

When I was a kid I went with my Grandfather when he was Salmon fishing and it was like going to church very filled with tradition and reverence to the fish...because it is the KING OF SPORT FISH... Hens were put back no matter if it was the only one you caught all year, preserve the resource...

That is how I know that it is not the sport fisherman on this side of the Atlantic that has cause the down fall of the Atlantic salmon... Understand that I am not saying that it is the European Sport fisherman that is the soul cause, by no means...

Sorry that is just the way I see it...

I have a good friend that lived and just returned from BC and had a ball and caught his limit of Chum (Dog) Salmon and released approx 50... the resource can support that type of fishery.... Approx 100,000 fish just in that river..

The Atlantic Salmon can't and still needs all the help it can...


The end of the story is that C & R works no if and or buts....


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As in the army I have never had a bad day fly fishing, some damn uncomfortable ones but never a bad one.
Everybody must believe in something and I believe in Fly Fishing and Tying and believe I will
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 Post Number: 3
An Griannach Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,02:21 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

C&R certainly works but it's not the only answer.
Anglers cannot be held solely responsible for salmon stocks. I do agree however that every little helps.

I do think however that there are a multitude of factors contributing to less stocks.

A high mortality at sea is a massive problem.
Salmon farms at the mouths of rivers & the resultant sea lice problem is a huge factor.
Commercial netting is still a problem; believe it or not the Foyle system (Rivers Mourne, Finn, Derg, Faughan, Roe, etc) is still operated as a commercial salmon fishery.

Poaching is a big problem in Ireland especially given the fact that the Gov. insist on closing down any rivers that fall below a certain quota thus leaving them open to the poachers who sell their catch for pittance so they can buy drink- there's no such thing as poaching in order to feed the family over here.

Destruction of habitat is another- the gov. here insist on dredging our finest rivers from time to time- it has happened to the Boyne countless times.

The list goes on...

I have a sneaking suspicion however that Global Warming could yet have a major part to play in Salmo-Salars fortune.

As I've said already I do agree that C&R has a big role to play and that we can all do our bit.
I have to say however that I find it hard to believe that C&R is the only reason Pacific Salmon pile into your rivers over there.
Other factors are bound to have contributed as much if not more!!!
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NZneil Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,02:33 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If its your local water and you choose to keep a fish then so be it... Nothing in the regs to say you cant then why not.  Its your choice..

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Paul Arden Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,02:42 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi Ronan,
I'd broadly condense those reasons into two; habitat destruction combined with pollution and harvesting. Eating fish is harvesting, whether rod caught or trawled. It's difficult for me to make the separation between the two. Sure rod caught is less efficient and has the ability to return juvenile fish, and may even be sustainable in moderation, but if the fish is eaten it doesn't matter how it was caught. The problem is not how it was caught, the problem is how many are being destroyed.

Cheers, Paul


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Paul Arden Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,02:49 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(NZneil @ Jan. 22 2009,02:33)
QUOTE
If its your local water and you choose to keep a fish then so be it... Nothing in the regs to say you cant then why not.  Its your choice..

Yes but we can influence those rules. They're not written by God.

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An Griannach Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,02:54 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That is very true; any killing of fish is harvesting. The same way that the use of any resource is the same.
I realise that salmon stocks at the minute are not anywhere close to levels that could facilitate harvesting but where would you stand on the killing of other fish?
For example, what about the Scandinavian guide that grills freshly caught trout over an open fire?
I know that people on this forum say that they would never kill a wild trout but what do you do if offered a bit?

I hate to bring this argument in & it is certainly not my position, but what about the moral argument that some would put forward that it is wrong to catch fish for fun. I know from time spent in Germany, that the gov. take a very strict view on C&R. They seem to think that it's ok to fiish so long as it's to eat them and not to enjoy oneself at nature's expense?

Rónán
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Paul Arden Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,03:22 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
what do you do if offered a bit?

Well I'd turn it down, obviously! A couple of years ago in the NZ backcountry with Ronan we ran out of food while making the Revolution. We were in an extra day because some bastards had illegally fished our water using helicopters. We had one packet of two-minute noodles left for the two of us, with an 8hr tramp the next day. We didn't actually catch a fish :p but I had made the decision to kill one. That's the only time I've thought about it. Hell I don't even drink Guinness because it's refined with fish product.

QUOTE
but what about the moral argument that some would put forward that it is wrong to catch fish for fun

Fishing is fun. That's why we do it!

Cheers, Paul


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flyfishfairwx Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,06:29 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi An Griannach

Plse reread my posts I am saying the same ..

yours
Anglers cannot be held solely responsible for salmon stocks. I do agree however that every little helps.

Mine
Understand that I am not saying that it is the European Sport fisherman that is the soul cause, by no means...

I have caught and kept "STOCKED" pond trout that is what they are there for....

Yours
The list goes on...
I do think however that there are a multitude of factors contributing to less stocks.

A high mortality at sea is a massive problem.
Salmon farms at the mouths of rivers & the resultant sea lice problem is a huge factor.
Commercial netting is still a problem; believe it or not the Foyle system (Rivers Mourne, Finn, Derg, Faughan, Roe, etc) is still operated as a commercial salmon fishery.

Poaching is a big problem in Ireland especially given the fact that the Gov. insist on closing down any rivers that fall below a certain quota thus leaving them open to the poachers who sell their catch for pittance so they can buy drink- there's no such thing as poaching in order to feed the family over here.

Destruction of habitat is another- the gov. here insist on dredging our finest rivers from time to time- it has happened to the Boyne countless times.



Mine
They have not and will not until we clear up some of the obstructions to their recovery..
SEALS
CORMORANTS
BY CATCH  
DOGS AND CATS
EUROPEAN FISHER MEN WHO USE TREBLE HOOKS ON FLY RODS.

I just let old feelings get to the top with this one, it truly bothers me to see a hen Atlantic Salmon dead..

Like Paul: If I was starving I would eat a wild fish or the asshole of a skunk.. what ever it took to survive, Just for the  record - I would eat the skunk first though ....


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As in the army I have never had a bad day fly fishing, some damn uncomfortable ones but never a bad one.
Everybody must believe in something and I believe in Fly Fishing and Tying and believe I will
A member of the order of the Odonata
Vice-President of Project Healing Waters & Fly Fishing CANADA
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joesnuffy Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 22 2009,06:35 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

do you catch and release folk feel the same way about hatchery fish that you do with wild?

when i was younger i used to keep almost everything that i caught. but now I'm the guy trying to convince everybody to release the fish.

i will keep the occasional hatchery steelhead for a friend now and again but that's about it for me.
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