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Topic: Bad News from Russia - Kamchatka, Salmon runs being obliterated - poaching< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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mattklara Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,02:52  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This makes me mad as hell.  Perhaps the last wilderness for salmon in the world and it's being destroyed because of greed and poverty.

The end of the wilderness: bears starve as poachers pillage Russia's wealth of salmon

Remote Kamchatka faces ecological meltdown as fish stocks are obliterated

Luke Harding in Ust-Bolsheretsk, Kamchatka
Friday June 22, 2007

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,2108850,00.html


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Eric Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,04:13 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

damn...  :(

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scotch mist Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,06:44 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

no offence matt...but the world is some what bigger than your narrow view. :glare: lukes ramblings are interesting,and i have had the pleasure :???:  of following his diatribe for many yrs......perhaps as a mod you should be presenting a (balanced )spectrum of the good and bad that exists in this planet, not dragging up sensationalist bits of news........dale

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compagnito Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,08:44 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Glad you led the response Scotch Mist.

I was talking to a best selling science writer at the w/e (not a fish scientist) she said "all this preservation of species is fucking bollocks, species have died out throughout history continuosly, some win some lose, who is harmed, the species - it isn't aware it is dying out, you, me, who?"

I said I tended broadly to agree.

Btw in the photo accompanying the article the scene looks like a feeding frenzy not apocalyptic starvation.

I can't help but link this idea of sanctity of racial purity to some rather unpleasant political theories of recent time.

You, could, I bet, have any European river teaming with Coho salmon in five years, given political support (granted there is little chance at the minute).

Shriek, horror, blasphemy .......-..........but why?


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Paul Arden Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,09:11 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well I don't agree with that. I would love to have seen a dodo, or a moa. Don't you think future generations would love to marvel at a salmon or an eel?

They are going to wonder why we allowed so many species to become extinct. It's the diversity of life on this planet that makes it truly amazing. Instead of turning the planet into one enormous farm I think we should be fighting for survival of the many species that are under threat. At some point this will tip, global warming, food shortages, water shortages, extinction of numerous species and who knows where it will finish?

I know that most of us like to think of the planet as a stable environment but we're orbiting at 67,000 mph through Space. Me, I don't think that's very stable. I don't know man, but we've managed to put a fucking hole in the Ozone layer. At what point do we decide to save the planet?

The problem is that most people live in their own little worlds and not on the real one, in my opinion.

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compagnito Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,10:13 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The preserving for future generations to admire is one reason, for sure.

Things do change - fifty years ago a chicken to eat cost about half a weeks wages in England. I don't think you can turn the world into a museum, but then that's the attraction of rural France, Spain and far away fishing places, to visit a gentler place/time.

I guess one question is whether to conserve at all costs or look at viable alternatives.

With research it might be possible to discover/develop fish that can adapt to conditions as they are, rather than trying to defend an impossible position?

It is depressing to go out over the wrecks mid-channel and catch fuck all, that's for sure, so I'd like to limit the food chain destruction and protect the sand eel.

I wonder if the focus ought to widen a little and look at possibilities for the future?

Trying to protect a remote Russian River looks possibly too difficult to achieve a viable result.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,12:26 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We easily criticise others for what we have done in the past.

The Thames used to team with salmon
The North Sea teamed with herring
The British Isles were covered in trees.
Loch Maree used to have sea trout

etc.

The basic problem is too many Homo Sapiens. Why governments bribe people to breed and are hell bent on competitive growth there can only be one conclusion.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,12:38 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I agree, - that was the gist of my follow up conversation with the scientist.

The scale of overpopulation in England is astonishing, I've pretty much given up trying to travel far on day trips. It would be nice to whiz up to the Lake District for a day after brownies etc, or the West Country for salmon, but the traffic is so completely shit.

But, we manage.


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Stoatstail47 Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,13:18 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(compagnito @ Jun. 26 2007,12:38)
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But, we manage.

Oh really ?? How do you think we are doing?

Just as a matter of interest what research do you believe may be undertaken to develop sand eels that fit the evolutionary niche requiring them to be burnt in power stations?

Maybe there is an alternative fish, undiscovered out there that we can burn. Then the mid channel wreck fishing will be saved.......hooray!!.

Anything... so long as we dont consider the possibility of ceasing to burn sand eels. :glare:

I do not understand the logic in your support of Scotch Mists implied criticism of Matts original post. Are you saying there is no point trying to stop the overfishing of Russian Salmon because this is evolutionarily normal? or because it "Looks too difficult"? or because it will adversly effect long term inflation of chicken prices? or because the roads are too busy?

I love logical absurdit :???: y and this is a whip crackin' belter.  I dont understand.....


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compagnito Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 26 2007,13:39 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

But, we manage.

I MANAGE - TO GET SOME DECENT FISHING THAT IS

Oh really ?? How do you think we are doing?

ABOUT AVERAGE

Just as a matter of interest what research do you believe may be undertaken to develop sand eels that fit the evolutionary niche requiring them to be burnt in power stations?

I DON'T RECALL MENTIONING POWER STATIONS

I WAS REFERRING TO THE USE OF SAND EELS AS FOOD FOR FISH FARMS.

http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/forums....ls.html

all about sand eels - some goodish news especially if you like sea birds.

RESEARCH WOULD BE ADAPTING OR USING DIFFERENT SPECIES LIKE COHO WHICH MIGHT WELL THRIVE AS OPPOSED TO THE ATLANTIC WHICH SAD TO SAY SEEMS TO BE IN A DECLINE

Maybe there is an alternative fish, undiscovered out there that we can burn. Then the mid channel wreck fishing will be saved.......hooray!!.

I THINK YOU MISUNDERSTAND THE POINT, IT WAS A SIMPLE REFLECTION THAT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON FISH STOCKS AT PRESENT.

ARE YOU SAYING COD ARE LESS WORTHY THAN SALMON? WHY?


Anything... so long as we dont consider the possibility of ceasing to burn sand eels.

I DON'T IMAGINE YOU COULD FUEL A POWER STATION WITH SAND EELS, WHERE HAVE YOU GOT THIS FROM?

I do not understand the logic in your support of Scotch Mists implied criticism of Matts original post. Are you saying there is no point trying to stop the overfishing of Russian Salmon because this is evolutionarily normal? or because it "Looks too difficult"? or because it will adversly effect long term inflation of chicken prices? or because the roads are too busy?

I'LL LEAVE YOU TO FIGURE THAT ONE OUT

I love logical absurdit y and this is a whip crackin' belter. I dont understand.....

HEY HO THAT'S LIFE - BUT THAT WAS MORE OR LESS WHAT I MEAN'T TO SAY.

TIGHT LINES OLD BOY!


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