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Topic: Makahu river access, DENIED!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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Kakahi Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 08 2007,20:02  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We had a wee clave in Hawkes Bay, and some of the water we were going to have a look at was the Makahu River. It's a nice little river, and being a tributary of the Mohaka, usually damn fine fishing at this time of the year.
I suggested to pb12 and saltofthec to fish there, but when they asked at the farmhouse if they could fish there, the lady said something along the lines of "The lady guide down the road pays us to fish here, so it wouldn't be fair on her if I let you fish" :oh:

:angry:

It's just not fair on us Kiwis!

I'm going to pop in to the Fish and Game office and see what they think of it all. :glare:

(edit: Eric 21Feb08)


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Paul Arden Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 08 2007,20:13 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wonder how much she pays? :???:

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 08 2007,21:09 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

She can ask for money to use the road but to say you have to "pay to fish' is actually illegal, I think.  

I love the 'fair' thing, though.   :D


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 09 2007,00:49 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The fact that she gets money from someone is great, the fact that they limit access gives value to what the lady guide pays. Isn't access pretty liberal down there? Rich

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 09 2007,00:58 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's tightening up, Rich.  

Problem is, of course, that the river and the fish aren't hers to charge for.  Charging to use her road is fair enough, as long as it's even handed and above board.  Either everybody pays, or no one pays. There are a few stitch-ups that amount to privatising a public resource.


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Rudi Ferris Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 09 2007,01:23 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi Guys,

Hawke’s Bay, and in particular access to the Mohaka is considered by many that would know, among the most privatized areas in NZ.  That F&G Region has a new manager and he may be more pro-active about pursuing these cases.  Most got along pretty well with the previous Manager who was very good with certain issues, but very many did have a bone to pick with him about access concerns.

That he apparently shifted from F&G to join the staff in charge of Poronui (among other enterprises) may illustrate an essentially different and contrary philosophy, that even those in F&G may hold.  Does anyone know who the new manager is?

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An arrangement where only a commercial guide is allowed access may dance very close to the sale of the rights to angle.  But a lot of determinates figure into that.  You should look at some of these details very closely.

Good luck,    Rudi
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 09 2007,02:50 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Stu, You should immediately do two things.

First you must ring the guide in question and ask if the information you were given is correct. This should be done before even posting here. It seems some damage to a guides business could result from such a post and if it is true then this is as it should be, if it is not then true then there's going to be some trouble.

If it turns out to be true then you need to immediately contact Fish and Game and the NZPFGA> Both have clear policies against such actions. But if we are going to talk about fairness then I suggest that giving the person being accused of something the right of reply would be the fair thing to do.

In the Poronui model Bryce Johnson went public with his attacks on Poronui without once ever contacting the property owner, at the time Mark Blake. Had he done so then Mr Blake would have understood why he could not exclude anglers and that he had been given extremely poor advice by his NZ managers. because of the way Fish and Game handled that issue in the early stages Poronui was left in little other position than to bring in the high powered lawyers to defend itself.

When the Poronui situation escalated and got out of hand the regional Manager, Steve Smith was brought in and the issue was very quickly resolved. An access page was erected on the Poronui website explaining and how to apply and get access and this was workable to all parties. Later when the sale of the property went through Steve Smith was the one charged with overseeing the conditions to be applied by the OIC and got them opening up the Taharua to anglers and all access.

Because of professional and efficient handling of that issue bringing it to a successful conclusion for all sides Smith, was offered a position with Poronui. Westerveld, the new owners usually only employ wildlife biologists to oversee their operations and the outstanding job Steve had done on this issue bringing it to a successful conclusion to all parties was obviously not lost on them.

While Rudi has chosen his words carefully to try and insinuate that Steve Smith has ever been pro closed access, to represent he may not have acted in the interests of license holders to even allude in passing to the things he has is scurrilous, despicable and shows an extreme lack of character in my opinion. It is absolutely dishonorable.

I first met Steve Smith when I was a transitional councillor for the Wellington Fish and Game Council and later as a councillor for the Eastern Fish and game region. He has been one of the more outstanding managers in the interests of license holders that I have witnessed.

I know this issue intimately and have been involved strongly with fish and game and was also a guide for Poronui for a number of years. I am no longer involved with either and do not have a dog in this fight except to say I am deeply disgusted by what has tried to be insinuated here by Mr Ferris. The only person I know that could possibly share those views, or even be privy to that information is the person who made such a debacle of the access issue themselves and set back the cause of recreational anglers in that regard 10years. I will make my own assumption here and humbly suggest Mr Ferris stops chatting to that person because it is making him look a fool and I would add a dishonorable one at that!

One of the biggest problems in any issue is radicals. Some radicals see the access issue and want nothing more than to see the negative portrayed and a fight to start. Instead of doing what sensible people do and setting out immediately to amicable and reasonable dialogue to gain a reasonable and amicable solution they simply start throwing crap people who do not deserve it, serve up falsehoods to sway opinion of others who have no other basis by which to go.

Forums are a wonderful thing but unfortunately they do give shit stirrers a platform to talk complete and utter crap, luckily on this forum there is someone with enough knowledge of the parties involved and the issues to be certain the truth is not lost in someones scaremongering and attempting to do damage to the reputation of the person who actually solved the access problem they waxed on about. Instead of hoping for better things from some unknown new manager you should be lamenting the loss of one who has proven they can solve such things with a positive result for all.

Stu, Give the person in question the right of reply. I don't know her and I don't know her policies. If she's tying up access make sure every authority with the jurisdiction is on her doorstep, if there's been a mistake not conveyed well in a second hand farmhouse doorstep conversation please be the first to post here about that too.

(edit: Eric 21Feb08)


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Paul Arden Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 09 2007,16:13 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

:???: Bad night Clark?

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 10 2007,00:09 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Clark,

I do not consider my reply dishonorable in the slightest.  My relations with the manager of that Region have always been direct, and with either agreements or disagreements, I hope respectful.  A manager (the employee of the anglers) does some good things.  A manager does some bad things. So what else is new in this wide world?  Eastern’s Manager earned my immediate gratitude when I agreed with him, and the opposite when I didn’t.

I am against privatisation of the resource.  My few conversations with him were generally about that and how Poronui was setting a rotten example, an example that was an inspiration to others and their plans for newly aquired Tribal lands or control over present ones.  I was the one who took flack over this, not Eastern’s Manager:  “If rich Pakehas can do it at Poronui, why can’t we do that here?”

My answer to those I respect and personal friends was simple:  “They shouldn’t be doing that at Poronui.  It is deeply contrary to the highest values of this Country.”   You can call this radicalism if you like, Clark, I call it common sense and fairness.

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Nor do I consider it “dishonorable” to point out that almost the entire history of Poronui and other ventures of that district, playing quite close to the sale of angling rights, were during BOTH Eastern and the present National Council Manager’s watch.  Long, long before any action on this issue.

You may call fair disclosure and public awareness of a threat to public angling, and the viewpoint that management could and should have done far more, far earlier, shit-stirring.  Where I come from, including the part of NZ I call home, we call this Democracy in its highest form, a form commensurate with the heritage of an angler owned and managed resource that graces not only New Zealanders, but those fortunate to visit a wonderful and inspiring place.  

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For what it worth:  in talks with Eastern’s past manager, I wasn’t convinced that he was anti-privatisation at all.  In fact, if I recall correctly, he considered it a possibly valid way to distribute the angling pressure.  I hold an entirely different view of the matter, and the law and tradition of New Zealand angling does too.  In my opinion.

For some issues I am discouraged we have lost that Manager.  For other issues, I am glad we get a replacement.

Rudi
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Clark Reid Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 10 2007,01:28 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Paul Arden @ Dec. 10 2007,04:13)
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:???: Bad night Clark?

Not at all Paul, at least not until I saw the post that offended me.

I get angry whenever I see slight and innuendo and people targeted without basis other than personal bias.

I also think that if posting negatively about someone and their business in public it should be only fair to ensure they have a right of reply. I hope Marlene Skeeter gets it because it seems she has been clearly named as the wrong doer here. Yet we really only have a second hand recount of a farmhouse doorstep conversation of her guilt. If she's guilty of it then fine, hang her out, but at least give her a chance to respond to the accusation, when I now see someone somehow make this Steve Smith or Poronui fault then I think the word witch hunt is probably appropriate.

As this situation has only just come to light to one of the locals of the area I am flabbergasted that Rudi was creative enough to even make a connection, that's about the only credit I could give those utterances in this instance.

Extreme disappointment tinged with a mild dose of anger at reading such stuff.


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