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Topic: Nail knot problem< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2005,14:20  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Guys,

I find that my fly line cracks immediatly behind the nail knot and eventually (and all too quickly really) an ever increasing lenght of the core is exposed.  On a couple of occasions in the last several weeks I have cut the knot off and remade it neatly but it can't continue or I will run out of tip.

It seems to be the sudden hinge effect behind the knot that is causing the problem.  Do we need some sort of very light rubber or latex sleeve to roll over the tip and then make the Nail knot over it and through it, such that there would be some resistance to the hinge effect at that spot?  

I dont think it is a casting problem causing the cracking?

I should say that (I think) my knots are very neat.  I use a Rio 15' tapered leaders to 4x for the most part, which I thread through the front of the tip with a very fine sewing machine needle (the knot is made to the rear of that hole and the cracking is well back from that point).

Any suggestions?

Don
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2005,16:07 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You can use a braided sleeve on the line, up to several inches long,and whip this.

You can use a heavier piece of nylon for the butt ( This hinges less).

You can put "heat shrink" tubing over the line and knot.

You can coat the knot, and part of the line, with "aquaseal", or similar.

This problem seems more acute with some lines than with others. One has to try a few things.

TL
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 03 2005,13:51 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks Mike,

I have tried shrink wrap in the past but felt it was too thick and heavy (for a 5#).  Must enquire whether there are finer grades.  The aquaseal solution sounds good.

Regards

Don
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 03 2005,14:03 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Don,

Your using the needle knot. The problem probably starts with the needle penetrating the coating. The hole quickly becomes a tear under the pressure of the knot.

I just use the normal nail knot, just four or five turns.  It leaves a bit of a stub of line that isn't as neat as the leader entering the centre of the core, but if it's trimmed flush with the line end, and then coated with silicon or rubber cement or something, it's pretty slick through the guides. There is no hinge effect.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 03 2005,14:04 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Brief imput Don;

I have more SA lines than my wife knows about, all my salt lines have braided loops sealed with " aquaseal" as mentioned by Mike, I used to use "super glue" but it cracked after a lot of use

All my freshwater lines have nail knots, never had a crack, again all were SA lines,  as Mike stated, some lines may be more affected than others,

What type of lines are you using?

I am no expert, just curious (for obvious reasons!)

Gary
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 03 2005,15:02 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Interesting. I had no trouble with Cortland 444´s, ( although I used aquaseal on these as well),but I certainly did have a lot of trouble with some other lines. To be fair, I had the most trouble with cheap mill ends. But the aquaseal usually solved it.

Obviously, this depends on the coating as much as anything.

TL
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 04 2005,17:24 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Gentlemmen,

Thanks for your replies; I appreciated Mike's early reply and had begun to fear it was the only one I could expect!

Bob; it is very definatly not the needle hole causing the problem as there is perhaps 2mmm between the hole and the beginning of the nail knot and then the knot itself is perhaps another 3 mm (two & half turns as per Paul's recommendations) such that the exposed core is n.l.t 5mm behind the needle hole.

Gary; I am using an SA XXD 5# and it shows no sign of cracking elsewhere.  

Mike; I dont like the weight of braided loops for 5# fresh water lines as I feel it slaps down on the water.  Contrary to what you suggest, I wonder if the problem isnt that the leader butt is too thick for the 5# and the nail knot is thereby too heavy.

Could it be that I am overtightening the knot?

Acquaseal may well be the solution but it is surprising that nobody else is having the problem!

Thanks guys

Don
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 04 2005,19:13 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Don

"Could it be that I am overtightening the knot?"

Sorry. Of course, the hole is downstream of the knot!  Duh. :p

Over-tightening is the probable culprit.  I have stripped the coating off lots of times doing that, so I just pull on the leader ends to snug the knot and to avoid that first coil digging in quite so much.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 04 2005,22:45 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi Don,
I don't know of a solution. The reason it happens is because the flyline is more supple than the leader butt. This problem doesn't occur with stiff saltwater lines. I suppose what is needed is a leader with a supple butt section. Aquasure can help the problem but it won't fix it altogether (and it's a bugger to remove when you want to change leaders).
Cheers,
Paul


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 04 2005,23:24 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Don, Paul,

After Paul's post, I've been thinking.  It must be due to the extra stiffness of the needle knot.  By running the leader up the inside of the line you are making a short and extremely stiff tip that will likely cause hinging, especially as Paul says, with a limp line.  

 I remember the line cracking at the splice on made-up sinking heads for steelheading.  The splice was the same needle type join, with epoxy on the core before it was pulled through the end of the other line.  It made a neat and smooth, but very stiff splice, and it would crack where the head's core was pulled through the coating of the the floating line.

Doesn't happen much with a straight nail knot, which is tightened down right at the end of the line.  I use quite stiff leader butts and don't get cracking on any of my lines.


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"...every fisherman will have to be a riverkeeper, a steward of marine shallows, a watchman on the high seas. "
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