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| Post Number: 31
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| Post Number: 32
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Paul Arden 
Fly God 2010
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 25670
Joined: Jul. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,15:16 |
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I've never seen multiple stab wounds, in fact I can make up a test later to see if this is true.
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It's an exploration; bring flyrods.
Flycasting Definitions
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| Post Number: 33
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Paul Arden
Fly God 2010
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 25670
Joined: Jul. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,15:23 |
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It has been stated in this thread but worth repeating that the main advantage of barbless is a speedy and clean release generally without removing the fish from the water. I've read hold the fish out of water for 20 seconds and you cause serious damage and often death.
Cheers Paul
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It's an exploration; bring flyrods.
Flycasting Definitions
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| Post Number: 34
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alex vulev
BBBB No2
Group: Members
Posts: 1207
Joined: Jun. 2007
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,15:26 |
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its a wrong debate in the study -its not about mortality rate issue in barbed vs barbless to prove a point, its about injured fish, I saw enough torn lips of small fish by barbed hooks in my fishing , thats why i decided voluntarily /we dont have barbless only rules over here/ to use barbless hooks when fishing c&r. You can easily check what harm a barbed hook will do to you when you stick it accidentaly to your finger and than try the same thing with a barbless 
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Wise indeed was George Selwyn Marryat when he said: "its not the fly; its the driver"
page 193,
GEM Skues,The Way Of A Trout With A Fly
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| Post Number: 35
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Silver Creek
Group: Members
Posts: 44
Joined: Dec. 2011
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,16:23 |
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(Biology @ Oct. 08 2012,12:45)
QUOTE
I posted the articles referenced in the above link.
http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums....-3.html
The science on barbless hooks has been known for quite some time. They do not preserve or increase trout populations. The larger barbless hooks kill more often that the barbed hooks because of the stiletto effect.
Barbless hooks cause less scarring of fish and fishers, but let us also be honest. The barbless hook regulations have been sold to fly fisher because they were supposed to prevent overkill of the fish by C&R fishing. Many scientific studies studies have shown that this is not true.
The 0.3% difference in mortality between barbed and barbless hooks pales in comparison to the natural mortality of the overall population. Plus the major killer in fly fishing is not whether the hook is barbed or not, it is the very act of catching and playing the fish.
On average, you kill 1 fish for every 20 to 25 you catch. A 0.3% difference in mortality requires that you catch and release 300 fish before there is a 1 fish difference. So just the act of fly fishing with a barbless hook kills 14 times as many fish as the difference between barbed and barbless hooks. Whose kidding who about barbless hooks "saving" fish?
Fishing is a blood sport. If you want to minimize the kill, don't fish or limit your fishing. That will save 14 times more fish than fishing with barbless hooks.
Personal experience is often wrong because we carry our own prejudices with us and we filter our experience through them. The fallacy of barbless hook mantra is one that I have been trying to educate fly fishers about for over 10 years.
As a founding member of our TU chapter, I spoke at our Wisconsin TU State Council to overturn the barbless hook regulations in Wisconsin. It was not done until our own Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources did their own research that confirmed what Dr. Behnke and the Idaho researchers had known for years. Prior to that, anglers were being fined for forgetting to pinch down their barbs when fishing in a special barbless regulation area.
Here is the question (in italics) posed to the Wisconsin Conservation Congress and all the sport fishers of Wisconsin to for a change in our fishing regulations.
"Most biologists agree that how deeply a fish is hooked has more to do with mortality than what type of hook is used. Despite the scientific evidence, anglers are required to use barbless hooks only during the early catch-and-release trout season. Elimination of that restriction would simplify trout fishing regulations and eliminate law enforcement issues.
Do you support allowing the use of barbed hooks during the early catch-and-release trout season in Wisconsin?
6. YES"
The majority of Wisconsin sport fishers approved that regulation change. It was based on the following research by our DNR quoted below:
"Managers of stream trout fisheries must often make regulatory decisions based on incomplete or contradictory information, and if these regulations do not produce the anticipated biological advantages, agency credibility can suffer. Unnecessary regulations that restrict angling opportunities without producing biological gains can be particularly damaging, especially in the current national situation of stagnant or declining license sales in most states.....regulatory concepts that currently suffer from inadequate information concern the putative benefits on post-release survival of barbless hooks versus conventional hook having barbs..."
http://www.moucheur.com/divers/TroutHooking.pdf
If the above link does not work, go to the first hit in the search below:
http://www.google.com/search?....e=UTF-8
Dr. Robert Behnke is the foremost world expert in North American Trout and Salmon and possibly the world's foremost expert on all salmonids. He is the expert that Trout Unlimited turns to for advice.
His awards and recognition are practically endless. It is ridiculous to think that he would not support barbless hooks if they were best for the cold water salmonid resource.
http://www.amazon.com/Trout-Salmon-America-Robert-Behnke/dp/0743222202
http://midcurrent.com/podcasts/dr-robert-behnke-a-life-with-trout/
http://scarles.org/blog/cutthroat-stalker/2512/a-day-with-dr-behnke/
http://warnercnr.colostate.edu/fwcb-ne....rvation
http://www.flyrodreel.com/magazine/2003/january/angler-robert-behnke
http://podbay.fm/show/125855444/e/1178532000?autostart=1
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Regards,
Silver
"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy
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| Post Number: 36
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Paul Arden
Fly God 2010
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 25670
Joined: Jul. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,16:24 |
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I've fished a barbed hook once in the last 15 years, that was while fishing tarpon in the keys, only out of respect to the guides taking me out for free who insisted on it. And of course I managed to get one deeply embedded on my palm when fishing with Tom White. That's karma in action 
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It's an exploration; bring flyrods.
Flycasting Definitions
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| Post Number: 37
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| Post Number: 38
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alex vulev
BBBB No2
Group: Members
Posts: 1207
Joined: Jun. 2007
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,19:16 |
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if that study would be implemented in streams like ours where many of the trout hooked are 7-10" browns you will understand the damage done to these small fish using barbed hook .With a treble hook - you simply cant remove barbed treble without serious damage for the fish.
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Wise indeed was George Selwyn Marryat when he said: "its not the fly; its the driver"
page 193,
GEM Skues,The Way Of A Trout With A Fly
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| Post Number: 39
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| Post Number: 40
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alex vulev
BBBB No2
Group: Members
Posts: 1207
Joined: Jun. 2007
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,20:11 |
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"Unnecessary regulations that
restrict angling opportunities without producing
biological gains can be particularly damaging,
especially in the current national situation of
stagnant or declining license sales in most states."
here is the key - its a quatation from the research. it seems to me they need money, so they will sell more license to bait and spin brigade thats why they are preaching barbed or barbless dosent matter. Over here our local regulations allow bait and spinning both with barbed hook in order to generate more money. Next thing to preach will be that c&r doesent make difference. I dont buy any of this crap 
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Wise indeed was George Selwyn Marryat when he said: "its not the fly; its the driver"
page 193,
GEM Skues,The Way Of A Trout With A Fly
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