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| Post Number: 41
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_Ré 
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Group: Members
Posts: 138
Joined: May 2007
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,20:14 |
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Paul,
You can definitely see dead fish (sometimes a lot) in Bosnia and also in Slovenia where fishing pressure is high. Most of them are on the ground and not on the surface.
That is why I never want to catch a lot of fish, just a couple of nice ones.
How do they know that a fish was caught 30 times per season on the San Juan, especially if it is full of fish. Is there an accountant following every fisherman checking the barcode of the fish? Sounds to me as an urban legend. C&R kills fish, if you want to protect the fish population hold back and catch less.
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"who knows absolutely everything about everything"
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| Post Number: 42
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alex vulev
BBBB No2
Group: Members
Posts: 1207
Joined: Jun. 2007
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,20:19 |
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double post
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Wise indeed was George Selwyn Marryat when he said: "its not the fly; its the driver"
page 193,
GEM Skues,The Way Of A Trout With A Fly
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| Post Number: 43
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Paul Arden
Fly God 2010
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 25670
Joined: Jul. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,20:46 |
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I don't know how they do it on the San Juan but there are some pretty effective methods of working out both fish population as well as angler catches, Akos. They know the NZ fish was caught 35 times because it's the same fish caught by the same guiding operation. I agree that C&R kills the occasional fish, I'm questioning 1 in 20/25 and would like to know where that figure came from because it doesn't add up. I know we push that fish are sensitive but they're not that bloody sensitive.
Cheers, Paul
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It's an exploration; bring flyrods.
Flycasting Definitions
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| Post Number: 44
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Paul Arden
Fly God 2010
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 25670
Joined: Jul. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,20:53 |
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For example, I've caught numerous pike-damaged fish with their guts hanging out, tails hanging off, and cormorant damaged fish with spear marks right through their body. And I've seen recovered fish from all these instances, with the scar marks to prove it. And yet through angling 4 or 5% die? Phew something doesn't add up there. Either the angling is of a very poor standard or the information is simply wrong.
Cheers, Paul
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It's an exploration; bring flyrods.
Flycasting Definitions
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| Post Number: 45
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Lasse Karlsson
Group: Members
Posts: 3063
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,20:53 |
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Hi Paul
Poor angler skills in handling and releasing fish.
Even if you have a mortality rate of close to zero, there's fifty idiots out there with barbless hooks that net fish in warm water and hold them out of water for 5 minutes for a photo shot for every you....
But hey they are fishing barbless and doing c&r like the good guys.....
Cheers
Lasse
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Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Gone.....
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| Post Number: 46
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Paul Arden
Fly God 2010
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 25670
Joined: Jul. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,20:58 |
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Don't hold the method to blame, Lasse. If there are anglers out there not releasing fish properly then guess who has to change it, and who is changing it? Us! Want we need is figures of mortality by anglers who are expert and release the vast majority of fish unharmed. And those are the ones to promote. And I for one don't believe that you can do as good a job with barbed hooks... it's not like I haven't hooked myself with them in the past.
Cheers, Paul
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It's an exploration; bring flyrods.
Flycasting Definitions
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| Post Number: 47
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Lasse Karlsson
Group: Members
Posts: 3063
Joined: Aug. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,21:01 |
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Paul, I'm not blaming the method, I'm blaming the idiots 
I fish barbless, 'nuff said.
Cheers
Lasse
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Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Gone.....
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| Post Number: 48
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Bernd
Group: Members
Posts: 2204
Joined: Mar. 2006
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,21:47 |
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I haven't studied biology. So no doctor title, nothing like that.
What I have done, is teaching very many beginners in fly fishing how to remove a hook from all kind of different fish species as well as all kind of sizes of fish.
Reading some of those studies make me smile. They are far off what I see happening on our waters.
Simply the barbless hook helps significally to remove the hook FAST. Especially with small fish and those having a small mouth in all sizes (like grayling).
Many of us need quite long to remove a barbed hook. All of the biologists I personally know (quite a few) agree the TIME factor to be the most important one mostly.
If the fish is hooked for example in the gills it often does not matter if the hook was barbed or not but will leave a killing cut anyway. That is what I have seen in my fishing often.
Even for me as one who fishes all year round and probably have removed more fish than most of us it can be quite tricky to remove a barbed hook sometimes.
As long as those studies do not explizit relate on TIME factor in relation to mouth size they seem to be not good enough to me. Because that is simply what I see with all my students all the time, no matter where and what we are fishing for.
Don't think I need any study at all to realize how long many need to remove their hooks and to know how bad that is for most fish, not all though.
I wouldn't say a barbed hook is very bad on all species as well as on all sizes of fish. But for many of both it is! I see much more cons than pros.
Honestly: Which hook would YOU want to have in your eye?
A barbed one or a barbless one? And why is it that (I think) this does not match with those studies?
Cheers
Bernd
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Bernd Ziesche
www.first-cast.de
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| Post Number: 49
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_Ré
Group: Members
Posts: 138
Joined: May 2007
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,22:32 |
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It is not about barbed hooks, of course you are better of with barbless, I only use barbless too. But a lot of people think that if they use barbless hooks and practice C&R the fish will survive whatever they do. It is not the case: we have seen a couple of times "skilled" flyfishermen catching one grayling after the another in Slovakia and Bosnia. They release them all and the fish swim away, but if you are fishing one or two pools below them all you see is dead or dying grayling drifting on the surface, one after the another. The fisherman won't even realize the he killed most of the fish he caught.
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"who knows absolutely everything about everything"
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| Post Number: 50
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Paul Arden
Fly God 2010
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 25670
Joined: Jul. 2003
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012,23:09 |
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Yeah maybe, but I've also fished waters where there are very few fish and what there are, are sight fished. Done well I don't think mortality is as high. Those are the figures we should be looking at, not what your average angler accomplishes - that we are working on. I would be surprised if I kill one in a hundred, maybe one in five hundred. I know it happens and I'm not shying away from the fact, I just don't agree with the numbers given.
I believe that grayling are hardier than trout by the way.
Cheers, Paul
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It's an exploration; bring flyrods.
Flycasting Definitions
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