Strength and Throwing

[Lee Cummings]

I got tired of hearing about Casting injuries leading up to this comp. One lad cast himself into the ground and out of the comp from Wednesday onwards, he wasn’t the only one.

It’s up to them mate, if they try training they may make it work for them, if it’s all done properly...

[Bernd Ziesche]

I can see that trying to get Bernd to test this theory out for us is not going to work

Mate,
I have done that some years ago.
Lee has made a very good point here. Increasing maximum physical strength means very serious work. In my experience every day I went to the gym I didn't enjoy training fly casting much, because after weight lifting I was done for the day. Not much energy left. That kept me from concentrating. Back then I did addionally train my casting every day anyway. But it wasn't efficient to me. Much better to concentrate my daily energy on casting since this trains exactly the muscles I need + flexibilty of all joints + controlling technique + improving technique + getting used to the tackle.

Simple questions:

Why don't we see the longest casts, the most accurate casts and the longest carries coming from those casters reaching the highest level of physical strength? I can't get anywhere near to find a correlation here.
I did find a correlation between technique of all experts and their distances though!

Being in good shape is (we all agree) important. Talking about max physical strength = max muscles is ime a very different herring.

P.s.: In the second pic you look quite scary to me, Lee.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Crap,

Hi Lasse
Can you pls. specify what exactly is crap?
Thanks, mate!
Cheers Bernd

Maybe read the whole sentence mate

Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

Let's have a look at Ronny Landin and his performance in 2012 and Bernt Johansson in 2018. Both fly casters hit 44m in the top end in heavy tailwind. Ok, Ronny was standing on surface level, why Bernt was standing significant above it. Therefore Ronny had a more horizontal wind. Anyway...
I would be very surprised, if not Bernt would be able to easily beat Ronny in arm wrestling as well as mastering to controll heavier rods. Still their distances topped out at the same distance. In my opinion both mastered their specific technique to a high degree in the very first place.
Paul,
back to Tor... you are right he did an outstanding performance in winless/low wind situations. Does he add distance on Bernt's and Ronny's max distances in heavy winds? Not, from what I have heard.

Ronny's best cast was done in competition, Bernt's not as everyone present during practice on Thursday could see.
And you would be surprised at Ronny's strength, I don't know many who can pop a hole in a un opened beer can with just his thumb...

Far to many variables and unknowns being thrown around as data here...

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Technique hits a wall at some point. Years ago I would cast one or two two-hour sessions every day. We are limited by two factors; head length and line speed. All else being equal, the one who throws it fastest throws it furthest.

Cheers, Paul

[Lee Cummings]

“Being in good shape is (we all agree) important. Talking about max physical strength = max muscles is ime a very different herring”

Bernd

Strength is hidden and what you see on the surface isn’t the full picture.

Huge body builders can actually be quite weak and by the same token I’ve trained with powelifters who weigh no more than 85kg who pull 300kg + deadlifts.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Technique hits a wall at some point. Years ago I would cast one or two two-hour sessions every day. We are limited by two factors; head length and line speed. All else being equal, the one who throws it fastest throws it furthest.

Cheers, Paul

Last time I agree this year, it's becoming a bad habit

Also agree with Lee's post, physical strength isn't about size of the muscles (we all have the same amount btw.) more things are in play there. Just do the math for 1cm length difference in where the tendon adhere to the bone from the joint.

Cheers
Lasse

[Bernd Ziesche]

Huge body builders can actually be quite weak and by the same token I’ve trained with powelifters who weigh no more than 85kg who pull 300kg + deadlifts.

Lee, I assume weight lifting in that area is like fly casting: Mastering the technique makes the biggest difference by far!?

Strength is hidden and what you see on the surface isn’t the full picture.

That matches with what I wrote in my fp:

In regard of max physical strength and explosive physical strength it's fair to summarize: One can get a proper level of explosive strength without having a high level of max physical strength. For example one may be pretty skinny, but can develop a very fast wrist, which of course can increase distance in certain situations!

Paul,
did excessive casting training 2 x 2- 4 hours per day increase your distance compared to training 1 hour per day?

Some years back for 3 years I trained like 5-6 hours every day. It was nowhere near to be effective for me. Yes, I got better in the beginning until I soon hit a wall. What instead became significant more effective, was to look for keys of improving my technique, that I was missing and thus not training.
Once I found those keys I didn't need much (but small) training to master them and increase my game.

All else being equal, the one who throws it fastest throws it furthest.

I agree as long as we are talking about a proper tensioned and proper straightened line to start the cast with. If not, I disagree with your statement to always apply correct.

[Paul Arden]

I should have been a politician. “All else being equal” can make even the most obscure thing important

I think that this conversation needs to go indoors. I’ve thrown 45m in the wind - so what? Flat calm, drizzle, indoors, 115’ will still put you in the top few. The difference nowadays compared to 10years ago, is that there are many more who can do this.

Is there more? Yes I’ve seen it. There will always come a point however where strength and speed will be the difference. If we were professional, or Olympic, then we would see that happen overnight. But neither you nor I would be contenders, Bernd, because we’d still be fishing

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

With regards the wall, Bernd, yes I hit that too. The answer is to stop training and come back to it a month later (work on something else). When you come back you cast less but quickly break the wall. Hit another wall and repeat. I did this many times. Each time the jump is less.

Cheers, Paul