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ICSF

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Paul Arden
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Re: ICSF

#221

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:49 am

Hi Lasse,

I wouldn’t make it compulsory and as far as I can tell it hasn’t been made compulsory anyway, but I would definitely make it an option. I’m quite sure for example that there are guys from lots of non European countries who would like the experience and satisfaction of having judged at the WCs and we certainly need that if we are ever going to get away from Europe.

Denmark may be a bit different but from this part of the world but if such a thing was available I would expect two or three judges to attend. I would offer them free food once there. And you will get guys flying over from Malaysia, China etc.

I would give them an incentive to go. Treat them royally. But they still have to pay to get there and contribute to their stay.

You have to remember there are people who world prefer to judge than to cast. This is their calling.

Cheers, Paul
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Dung Fly
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Re: ICSF

#222

Post by Dung Fly » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:26 am

James9118 wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:54 pm
Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:23 pm
...but I have also experienced well meaning non competitors judging horribly wrong....
Lasse
The best example at the BFCC I saw was this - the markers are given two sticks, one to plant where the fluff lands and a second to line up perpendicular with the first against the tape. This particular person initially did everything great, but then pulled up both sticks and waited for the next cast to arrive, and then repeated the same process until someone asked what the f*** they were doing. :D
So the measurement was a guesstimate !
Both Bosch and Leica do reasonably priced laser distance devices that measure - 40/80/120/200/300m and accurate to 0.01mm ideal when casting over grass.

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Paul Arden
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Re: ICSF

#223

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:17 am

Something that we have never done is to see how accurate our triangulation is. By this I mean when we measure down a measuring tape the distance is not measured to the fly but rather squared to the tape. The further away from the tape you are the shorter your measured distance. I actually prefer that but I can also see there is a skill in using the wind within an arc. It just takes longer to measure.

Having two lanes makes it easier to do this. Two people working together allow for the line to be squared. How accurate this is would be interesting to know using separate measurers measuring the same distance.

I would hope we are accurate to within a foot. But realistically it might be two feet particularly with a cast landing significantly away from the tape. I always try to throw as close to the tape for this reason :)

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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John Waters
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Re: ICSF

#224

Post by John Waters » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:59 am

In the BFCC tournaments on grass, is the cast distance measured directly from the casting box to the fly, or do you use court edge tapes and measure across to the fly? I assumed the former, but was James’s example an exception or the normal way casts are measured?

John

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Lee Cummings
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Re: ICSF

#225

Post by Lee Cummings » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:36 am

After reading the last three pages I just wish to provide some clarity to some points.
Paul, the UK judges were Paul Proctor, Kirk Lyon, Craig Brown, Will Shaw and Alex Titov (who came in very late), all apart from Alex received plenty of (on the water training) during the 20 individual qualifying events we ran between August 2017 and March 2018.
All were due to attend a judges certification class but this was not deemed necessary as the mix of Norwegian judges (who fully trusted my lads) satisfied everyone concerned.

I agree with John regarding the changing of events, leaving things as they are for a while, it’s easy to lift fingers to simply type out all the changes that you want, much harder to actually make the changes.

The Belfast 2022 WC should it go ahead will be arranged by the organiser of the Celtic Spey and UK Fly Casting Sport. The casters from Belfast who initially wished to compete in 2018 were the main reason I formed UK Fly Casting Sport (and not Great Britain Fly Casting Sport).

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James9118
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Re: ICSF

#226

Post by James9118 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:13 pm

John Waters wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:59 am
In the BFCC tournaments on grass, is the cast distance measured directly from the casting box to the fly, or do you use court edge tapes and measure across to the fly? I assumed the former, but was James’s example an exception or the normal way casts are measured?

John
Hi John,

At the BFCC every caster (usually 3 at a time) has a tape at their feet (and a base-line which they must not step over). The casts are then measured to the tape by taking a perpendicular line from where the fluff landed. As such, landing your fluff directly on the tape is always going to be better than missing off to the side.

My example was meant to show how a perfectly sane, intelligent person can completely cock-up a seemingly simple task. The person in question wasn't even trying to remember the cast that had just been made before pulling the sticks out. It's quite funny thinking about it now, but was annoying for the unfortunate caster at the time.

James.

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Paul Arden
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Re: ICSF

#227

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:02 pm

The same configuration as our shootout in Australia, John.
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: ICSF

#228

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:10 pm

My worst was at the Danish championships, a well meaning measurer went for where the fluff hit the floor (quite smooth and it could slide further) rather than where it ended up... Rules clearly state it is where the fluff ends up...

Cheers
Lasse

P.s the swedes are very good in measuring in the field, can't remember how the BFCC has their lanes build, but going with the WC court, they mark where the fluff ends up with half a tennis ball, and after ones time is up, a secon measuring tape is used to get the longest and second longest cast measured at a right angle to the zero line. Very easy and quite fast, and it beats trying to figure out a distance by eye balling it on the go 🙂
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Paul Arden
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Re: ICSF

#229

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:32 pm

While it's nice to know the distance of all your casts, all that really matters is the longest one or two. At BFCC and SL Meets we only measure the longest. That makes it easier to measure properly, however it would still be interesting to find out what the margin of error really is. While we are scoring to the nearest inch I bet we are not nearly so accurate!

Cheers, Paul
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: ICSF

#230

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:45 pm

Sometimes you need three maybe four casts to be measured 😉

Cheers
Lasse
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***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

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