Double Haul timing

[Paul Arden]

Ironically perhaps I think we all agree. If at least by stabilising the loop we mean pulling it.

Since that’s a very important part of how the loop functions shouldn’t that be part and parcel of the whole physics deal?

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Na, don't think the loop is pulling the line

But cool you're on with Carls energy packet whiplash idea!

Cheers
Lasse

[VGB]

The tension in the loop provides a pseudo rigidity. I’m just glad that the proposed experiments involve a rod and line

[James9118]

Ironically perhaps I think we all agree. If at least by stabilising the loop we mean pulling it.

Since that’s a very important part of how the loop functions shouldn’t that be part and parcel of the whole physics deal?

Cheers, Paul

yes, we just need to strip the magic out first

[Paul Arden]

Tension, force, pulling. It’s all the same. I pretty sure that the dropped chain shows it. Propagation of tailing loops shows it. The problem with these physics discussions being so polarised is that Lasse is left believing one thing to the exclusion of the other when both are true.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

yes, we just need to strip the magic out first

It wouldn’t be Xmas without magic

[Lasse Karlsson]

Tension, force, pulling. It’s all the same. I pretty sure that the dropped chain shows it. Propagation of tailing loops shows it. The problem with these physics discussions being so polarised is that Lasse is left believing one thing to the exclusion of the other when both are true.

Cheers, Paul

So dolphin loops are just poor pullers or what

Your distance cast loop from Fagernes loka mostly like slack, can you explain the idea of a pulling force or higher Tension in it?

Not much of a religiuos person, so don't believe much mate

Cheers
Lassr

[Geenomad]

The problem with these physics discussions being so polarised is that Lasse is left believing one thing to the exclusion of the other when both are true. l

Actually I think there are several problems with these "physics" discussions. One is that some contributors steadfastly avoid the fundamental question - what powers turnover? Another is trying to slide from that question to what the loop does. A third is attempting to distract from the slide with the pursuit of modular red herrings and the minutiae of complex abstraction. We are invited to go down to the woods for the teddy bears picnic and then to chase rabbits from an inexhaustible warren.

Your assertion, Paul, is simply untrue. Camp 2 followers have not once said that tension doesn't exist.

To take another car analogy. My 4WD has a 4.2l diesel engine and the 12v cranking battery is rated at about 700 CCA. One AA battery is nominally 1.5v so 8 of them wired in series would be 12v. If I take such an 8 pack and connect it in parallel with the cranking battery then when I turn the key, technically, it will be true to say it is contributing to turnover. Practically, it would be absurd to say the AA cells are turning over the engine.

I/We don't exclude the rod leg, mediated via the loop, acting on the fly leg (which is pulling on the rod leg). Yes there is tension as has been said repeatedly. Why do you keep saying otherwise?

Cheers
Mark

[Paul Arden]

This is also true Mark, giving direct answers is not something that is apparently possible in physics and you have to ask questions instead.

Tension exists, (tension is a pulling force). How much tension is at the fly leg now compared to the rod leg we don’t know since Vince said it was not the same. If it was the same then we know it’s quite significant. On a classic U shape loop it is the same

Lasse has been reading these threads for as long as I have and believes that -camp 2? - have a fly leg overtaking or pushing on a loop... probably - and that’s how Graeme had it stated in his first video, so maybe that’s why. Of course that can’t be happening for the line to behave in the way it does.

The line is in flight but also being pulled seems rather difficult to conceptualise.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

Hi Paul

Tension exists, (tension is a pulling force). How much tension is at the fly leg now compared to the rod leg we don’t know since Vince said it was not the same. If it was the same then we know it’s quite significant. On a classic U shape loop it is the same

And if we only cast classic U shape loops, answering physics questions would be very simple indeed. However, some can cast loops that have sufficient tension to pick up a long length of rod leg but not enough to pull a little wrinkle out of the fly leg, so variable tension is real.

https://vimeo.com/66594606

Lasse has been reading these threads for as long as I have and believes that -camp 2? - have a fly leg overtaking or pushing on a loop... probably - and that’s how Graeme had it stated in his first video, so maybe why. Of course that can’t be happening for the line to behave in the way it does.

I’m sure that Lasse understands perfectly well that the outcome depends on the input casting stroke. The camp 2 explanation provides a simple explanation for the fly line behaviour that works well.

The line is in flight but also being pulled seems rather difficult to conceptualise.

Get yourself a little rubber duck on wheels that is pulled by a long piece of string. Holding on to your piece of string run as fast as you can for 20 metres then go to a slow jog. For a while, ducky will be catching you up but you will still be pulling on the piece of string. Now you have conceptualised it go out and cast 150ft.

Vince