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Bruce Richards
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:38 am
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Welcome Bruce Richards

#61

Post by Bruce Richards »

Jason Borger wrote:
Bruce Richards wrote:The Madison is incredibly diverse and big, hard to learn/know it all. It changes dramatically from headwaters in Yellowstone Park, through Hebgen and Quake Lakes, "the riffle", then Ennis Lake then "lower" and into the Missouri. Lots of big fish in every part, but very different fishing. 183 miles of diversity!
Bruce
FWIW--My favorite "big" river in the entire U.S. A bit jealous of the time you'll be able to devote to it...
Hi Jason! It's been a while... I haven't even seen all 183 mile of it yet and it's been 6 years! I'm always looking for help, if you have time..
Best,
Bruce
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Paul Arden
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Welcome Bruce Richards

#62

Post by Paul Arden »

Well I disagree that I'm wrong :p A DT is a great distance line in the right hands and will outperform most 40ft WF lines however for a beginner who can't double haul he will do better with a short WF line, especially one that is one or two line weights heavier!

Ok now I have a very long drive! Back tonight :cool:

Cheers Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions
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Graeme H
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Welcome Bruce Richards

#63

Post by Graeme H »

I'll be up for that line too Paul, so when you order yours, grab one for me too.

(In the meantime, I did find a supplier of intermediate DT 10wt lines here in Oz. I'll PM you the details later after I've tested the one that's on its way to me now.)

Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI
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Lasse Karlsson
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Welcome Bruce Richards

#64

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Paul Arden wrote:Well I disagree that I'm wrong :p A DT is a great distance line in the right hands and will outperform most 40ft WF lines however for a beginner who can't double haul he will do better with a short WF line, especially one that is one or two line weights heavier!

Cheers Paul
This is turning in to a bad habit, I agree with Mr. Smelly socks :)

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685

Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts ;)
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Walter
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Welcome Bruce Richards

#65

Post by Walter »

Paul Arden wrote:Well I disagree that I'm wrong :p A DT is a great distance line in the right hands and will outperform most 40ft WF lines however for a beginner who can't double haul he will do better with a short WF line, especially one that is one or two line weights heavier!

Ok now I have a very long drive! Back tonight :cool:

Cheers Paul
Does not compute.

Since you can easily buy any of the lines you describe at most local fly shops I fail to see how that equates to fly lines being made to cater to inadequate casters.

As Bruce has said, fly line manufacturers cater to whichever lines have the highest sales. Most of the beginners I sold lines to didn't have a clue what they wanted but like most people in our age of technological fixes they believed that the right rod and line would make them "adequate"' casters (to use your terminology). There was no bin for lines that was secretly labelled, "for inadequate casters". Inadequate sales people would often sell poorly matched outfits.
"There can be only one." - The Highlander. :pirate:

PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.

PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.
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Walter
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Welcome Bruce Richards

#66

Post by Walter »

Bruce Richards wrote: Hi Gordy,
I doubt that Eric made his longest casts with the 12 wt. line on the #5 rod, more likely the line would have been a 7 or 8. And I think there are too many variables to make any blanket statement on this subject. Eric is a VERY talented caster and knows exactly how to adjust his cast to the gear.

Bending the rod more does yield more tip/line speed, all else being equal. But while increasing line weight will increase rod bend, it will also reduce the speed of the unbending of the rod, it's pulling more mass. So you end up with a heavier line going a little slower. This might well result in more distance. But I'm sure there is a limit to how far you can take this, and yes, rod breakage would be one of those limits. For most casters though, breaking a rod by casting is very difficult or impossible, even if uplining by a couple sizes. I've asked Noel Perkins for his thoughts on this, hopefully he'll have time for a quick response..
Bruce
Great response Bruce. I suppose one of the other variables would be the rod itself. It may have been labelled 5wt but who knows how it would compare to other 5 wt rods. I think this goes back to Paul's earlier comment about manufacturers catering to inadequate casters. Rod manufacturers don't have an established standard to rate their product against so if there is catering to one class of casters happening it would more likely be driven by that part of the business.

Looking forward to hearing Noel's thought on this. If anyone can cut through the complexity it should be him.
"There can be only one." - The Highlander. :pirate:

PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.

PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.
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sms
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#67

Post by sms »

Hi Bruce,

I have a few questions:
- Why are most cores still so low breaking strength (that you can't really use them for tuna)? I think some dacron/gsp mix braid should get the b/s to around 50lb without much if at all affecting the diameter and the adhesion of the coating to the dacron would still be there.
- Is there some correlation with line diameter, line suppleness and how well the core is centered? For example thick and supple line makes it more likely that the core is on one side. Or does it depend on machinery and or method - like if the line is made in horizontal or vertical direction?
I'm here just for the chicks.

-Sakke
Bruce Richards
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Welcome Bruce Richards

#68

Post by Bruce Richards »

Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Paul Arden wrote:Well I disagree that I'm wrong :p A DT is a great distance line in the right hands and will outperform most 40ft WF lines however for a beginner who can't double haul he will do better with a short WF line, especially one that is one or two line weights heavier!

Cheers Paul
This is turning in to a bad habit, I agree with Mr. Smelly socks :)

Cheers
Lasse
Well that does help, at least I know we should make 3 of the lines! Of course, I'd probably give them to all 3 of you so we still wouldn't make any money...
Bruce
Bruce Richards
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:38 am
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Welcome Bruce Richards

#69

Post by Bruce Richards »

sms wrote:Hi Bruce,

I have a few questions:
- Why are most cores still so low breaking strength (that you can't really use them for tuna)? I think some dacron/gsp mix braid should get the b/s to around 50lb without much if at all affecting the diameter and the adhesion of the coating to the dacron would still be there.
- Is there some correlation with line diameter, line suppleness and how well the core is centered? For example thick and supple line makes it more likely that the core is on one side. Or does it depend on machinery and or method - like if the line is made in horizontal or vertical direction?
SMS,
Most line fly lines break at 20-40 lbs. because that is all that is needed, most lines are not used for tuna, of course. SA, and other mfgs. do make lines for tuna though, SA's Big Water Tapers have 100 lb. test cores for example. There are lots of exotic materials today that might seem like good fly line cores, but almost all of them have at least one fatal flaw, that's why none are being used... For example, GSP usually has a melting point less than the cure temp of most coatings. It also has no stretch, which is bad. Think what happens when you mix two cores with radically different properties, like GSP and Dacron. Dacron stretches, GSP doesn't. Let's say you've mixed 30 lb. of GSP with 30 lb. of Dacron.. Now pull on it. At 30 lb. of strain the GSP breaks, the Dacron has done little so far. Now all the strain is on the Dacron and its nearly at its breaking strain. It quickly stretches to about 7%, then breaks at 30 lbs. 2 +2 doesn't always equal 4...

How well the core is centered in a line is largely determined by the people making the lines and the machinery. However, some lines are much easier to center than others, depending on a number of variables including diameter, coating material and a few others I can't discuss... But mostly it's the skill of the people operating the machinery, and the machinery itself (precision, maintenance, etc.)....
Good questions..
Bruce
John Waters
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Welcome Bruce Richards

#70

Post by John Waters »

Thanks for your reply to my question about back tapers Bruce, much appreciated.

John
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