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Bill Gammel
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Welcome Bill Gammel!!

#21

Post by Bill Gammel »

Sorry very busy day just walked and am walking out again for several hours. I will catch up after baseball practice.
Bill Gammel
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#22

Post by Bill Gammel »

Graeme, I want you to think about the path of the rod tip during the stroke that forms a tailing loop. It is different depending on the mistake. It is not concave like a bowl. There is a concave spot in the path not the whole path. Think sine wave and a ski jump (straight line slightly down with a sharp up at the very end.)

Paul, I sent you some pictures. The boys are improving greatly, when I can get them away from this baseball garbage. They are pretty good trout fisherman. Learning to warm and saltwater fish this year. John is learning to cast a push button reel and can catch fish with a fly rod if the cast is very short. He caught seven like the one in the photo and he cast the fly, stripped it and played them by himself. JW is a real good wing shot and killed quite a few full limits this season. Cliff killed 10 birds in the air this year. This is his first time to try to kill a bird that is not sitting. We are going to do a lot of night fishing this year, fishing the green lights. The boys should really improve in that type of situation.
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Graeme H
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#23

Post by Graeme H »

Yep, I think I know what you're talking about there Bill. In relation to a cast initiated before the line fully extends (a pause that's too short) rather than a bowl shaped tip path, we get a spoon shaped tip path, where the handle of the spoon is the initial SLP, and the dish of the spoon is the erroneous part of the cast formed after the full line is being accelerated.

While the line is still unrolling, the mass being moved during a premature acceleration is lower, so the tip establishes one path, but as soon as the full line starts to move, the tip drops further due to increased mass being pulled. During the unload, it springs back up and a tailing loop is formed.

Is that the gist of it?

(If it's the ski-jump path and the caster is hauling, there's a good chance it's due to a haul that's finished too early, but that's another story ...)

Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI
Bill Gammel
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#24

Post by Bill Gammel »

Bernd, I have a few stories to tell. In Idaho Falls, Bruce Richards, Tom White, Rick Hartman, Paul Arden, and Bill Gammel stood on the lawn of the Hotel and cast. This turned into one of the most epic cast offs I have ever seen. We cast distance, under tables, through windows, and capped it off with Rick and I putting a fly on the roof of a four story hotel that was only 50-60 feet in front of us (thats straight up). It was one awesome display by all of them and luck on my part. Paul threw a cast threw a second story balcony door and across a little old ladies room who was standing on the porch making smart mouth comments at us. Then Rick wins by putting the fly through the door, across the room, and into the sink. We were there laughing, joking and making all kinds of noise, all with a 100 feet of line out and not 6 people stopped to watch. We could not even draw a crowd at the conclave. Twenty five years ago Steve Rajeff, Dad and I stepped out the door of a west yellowstone conclave for him to show us the new "IMX" fly rods and the three of us had a crowd of close to 100 people standing there watching Rajeff, a kid, and an old man throw 100+ foot casts for an hour. There was no instruction, just casting. Twenty years later Tim Rajeff, Katherine Hartt and I were casting at the conclave in Livingston, MT. We were 105 feet from a fence and we were trying to throw a fly threw the gap between the fence and the building it was adjacent to. This was about three inches wide. We cast and cast every time we thought someone had gotten it through we would run up to the post to look. Two grown men running around making fools of themselves while repeatedly casting over 105 and no one stopped to watch. I finally won when Tim made the mistake of answering his phone. While his back was turned I threw a cast high into the wind and let the wind blow the loop into the building and it fell perfectly straight about five feet past the post in that little gap. Tim could not believe it and Katherine and I never told him.

I don't know what is happening. It is a change in mind set. I don't want to do something unless I am going to try to be good. I hate being guided. (It is different with Rick, I don't mmd him pushing me around all day.) I want to find the fish and figure them out. I had to ask Ryan Stokes, a guide friend of mine for help this summer and it just killed me. Not that Stokes does not know tons more than me about trout fishing, but it was that I could not figure out the fish on my own. Walter hit the 1:1 ratio story pretty much right. If you can cast out of your shadow you need to teach every one you know.
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Paul Arden
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#25

Post by Paul Arden »

Yes I remember after a dinner where some of us guys were chucking lines around and having fun and only the usual crowd were around. Still that's fine too. It takes a special kind of person to love casting and fishing!

Some pics! (I must get back there soon Bill!)

1 - JW 13 years old
2 - John 5 years old caught 7 like this
3 - Cliff is ten and Together they caught over 100 trout in two days. Cliff and JW require little help after I show them the seams and fish holding areas. I still select there flies for them.
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It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Paul Arden
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#26

Post by Paul Arden »

Order is 3-2-1. Sorry about that.

Do you still fish the green vortex lights for redfish, Bill?

Cheers Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Bill Gammel
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#27

Post by Bill Gammel »

Paul, With those kids school, sports, and trying to hunt, I don't have a lot of time to fish in the day. Those green lights are my way to get to fish regularly. There are a lot more of them now than when you and I fished them years ago. Every property has 1 or two or 6. In every on the water neighbor hood now they are the dominant light. Very few people use the stadium lights like back in the 80's. It is a great way to sight cast at night when it cooler and not 100 degrees. You still have that photo that ran of you picture of the day? Add the link so people can see what we are talking about. If i lived on water I would own two. Sure wish you were not wanted for unspeakable crimes here, so you could come back. Did not expect to have two more kids and one of them is ten years old before you got back over here.
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Bernd Ziesche
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#28

Post by Bernd Ziesche »

Hi Bill,
nice stories about you guys enjoying fly casting. :) I have had quite some shootouts with Paul (and friends). All in all we both have our wins and losses. No doubt when it comes to throwing the fluff thru the tiniest windows in whatever buildings Paul always wins! :p Of course Paul also has some tricks in his pockets. Using the same rod in the competition casting AFTER Paul means one better should check if for example the line runs thru all rings and more. :)

Indeed Walter!
Cheers
Bernd
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The first cast is always the best cast.
Bill Gammel
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#29

Post by Bill Gammel »

Bernd, Do that as often as you can. That is one thing I really miss. It is a six hour drive for me to get to Rick's house and 24 hrs will get me to Montana. The first 13 of that is still in Texas. So I am a long way from many of my casting friends with little time left to travel. I wish I could meet many of you guys from Europe and Australia/New Zealand. Next time y'all make a road trip to the US let me know. I do manage to make it to Montana at least once a year and will continue to as long as I can.
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#30

Post by Paul Arden »

This is ISWFF...

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