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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

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Geenomad
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#1

Post by Geenomad »

G'day Folks
it is widely accepted, by me included, that Pullback (PB) helps to tighten the loop. As Paul says in his latest vid it probably increases counterflex (CF). Theoretically CF should increase loop size because pullback forces the rod to unload. Something is missing here.

Suspects.
Theory sucks. PB doesn't increase CF.
PB does something else that counters CF. Is it lift?
Do we unconsciously alter the tip path, in anticipation of PB? eg. Abbreviating stroke arc.
Is the timing of PB and CF relative to the loop formation different to "normal" CF, say earlier and that doesn't affect loop size so adversely?
Some combination of the above.
None of the above.

Just curious.

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com
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Graeme H
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#2

Post by Graeme H »

PB may increase total CF, but the tip moves less relative to the ground during that CF than it would otherwise do. That means the tip stops closer to the path the line was taking.

Cheers,
Graeme
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Geenomad
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#3

Post by Geenomad »

Graeme H wrote:PB may increase total CF, but the tip moves less relative to the ground during that CF than it would otherwise do. That means the tip stops closer to the path the line was taking.
Thanks Graeme. I think that counts as a vote for suspect 2. :)

Still interesting though, It implies that PB creates or effectively creates a shorter arc ergo a straighter line path than with a "normal" stop. Is that how you see it?

Alternatively, when we use PB we don't have to worry about more CF so probably not much to be gained from introducing CF to the commentary. :)

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com
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Paul Arden
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#4

Post by Paul Arden »

Quite right! There are two pull-backs. One subtle and gentle, the other overpowering and violent. :)

I think the subtle one straightens tip path. The other does the other three things. I’ll have to think about that!

Cheers, Paul
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anjill
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#5

Post by anjill »

Hi Mark,

IMHO, a well executed PB ( a.k.a.“Hard Stop”, “Toft Block” etc.) foreshortens the casting arc, focuses counterflex energy towards the target and then captures the energy of the subsequent rebound, to further speed up the fly leg of the loop, as does a snap or a check haul.

Since all of this happens close below, and relatively parallel with, the (theoretically) straight line path of the rod tip, the loop will indeed be narrow.

Regards,
Tony.
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Paul Arden
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#6

Post by Paul Arden »

There are quite a few vids on SL. I’ll dig them out.
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Lasse Karlsson
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#7

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Loopmorph.....
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Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685

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Lasse Karlsson
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#8

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

True vs. false perspective
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Paul Arden
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#9

Post by Paul Arden »

I’m sure it’s forcing the bend out of the rod. So obviously there are different level from actively forcing it out to putting more energy in.

Cheers Paul
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Lasse Karlsson
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Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

#10

Post by Lasse Karlsson »



https://youtu.be/zR1Lnf4W9YU

Yup, forcing the bend out, I can go with that :D

Cheers
Lasse
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Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685

Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts ;)
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