Rollover

[Paul Arden]

Hi James,

A 120ft Snapcast wouldn’t be a problem I think with a 120ft DT line. Certainly I can snap 100ft DT line without any great challenge. I can snap pick up more than pick up overhead

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

Great to have you back, Torsten!

Thanks,
Paul

[James9118]

Hi James,

A 120ft Snapcast wouldn’t be a problem I think with a 120ft DT line. Certainly I can snap 100ft DT line without any great challenge. I can snap pick up more than pick up overhead

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul,

You can show me this next week. I'm talking about making a 120ft cast, not just getting the fly back to your hand, the fly has to land 120ft away from you. I'll bring a camera to film the results

Torsten - really, I have to prove that you can't have drag without tension? Perhaps I need educating here - how exactly does drag work - is it pixies again?

[Paul Arden]

Ah OK, I (and you) can probably completely reverse the line but I don't expect to shoot any and at best I expect we can get the line that we snap under to straighten beyond us. So to cast 120ft we will need a 120ft DT. I've never cast such a line but I'm pretty sure we can spin around 100ft DT which I do have.

The Snapcast only works, however, with some initial momentum in the fly leg. It doesn't have to be very much but the line does need to be moving. Otherwise you end up looking like your trying to make some sort of crappy roll cast!

Cheers, Paul

[Torsten]

I'm sure such a snap cast will look spectacular

James:

Torsten - really, I have to prove that you can't have drag without tension? Perhaps I need educating here - how exactly does drag work - is it pixies again?

I expect from you constructive and not destructive argumentation and I'm sure you can.
Please don't think I'm biased, I just came across your posting and I'll do the same for others like Gordy.

--

I'm locking this thread until I did some cleanup at the evening.

Thanks,
Torsten

[Torsten]

OK, I've moved some postings and edited the content from Gordy that may has offended Vince.
The topic is open again. Please be kind to each other.

[James9118]

Just putting this here:

A line powered only by its initial momentum has no tension, and thus is at the mercy of drag forces that will prevent it from propagating very far

Me - Don't the drag forces create tension?

Of course it does

Me -

[Torsten]

James,
I'm guessing this was a statement from Gordy.

In my opinion we don't know enough about the role of the tension yet. Any conclusions are pure speculation.
And yes, the statement sounds to me contradictory. Also it's likely that the tension distribution along the loop is not uniform.

The major challenge is, that we can't measure directly the tension of the line during loop propagation. The only way I could imagine is to model the line and see in the simulation what happens. I'll try to get my (old) fly line simulator running again.

[VGB]

I’m with James on this one, if we apply an external force to one end of the line then there will be tension in the line, the only question is the magnitude. If this tension isn’t significant then you need to find another reason for spaghetti not happening when the loop collapses.

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

Hi guys,

It would be very interesting to know how the tension is distributed and its values. When casting a flyline without a leader at the normal speeds it whip cracks more often than not. And this applies even to tapered fly lines.

I’d assumed that this was the tension accelerating the ever decreasing mass (length) of the top leg, eventually the loop exceeds the speed of sound, and CRACK!

You can often get a similar effect by leaving your fly in a bush, but removing the leader is far better altogether.

Cheers, Paul