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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

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Bernd Ziesche
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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#11

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:52 pm

Michal Duzynski wrote:Hi Bernd, thank you,
just one more thing- sorry of changing the subject in your thread, but its only for this last questions.
If Im using Barrio GT125 6Wt in a 6wt competition, and I got checked, would I get disqualified becouse of the 11.4g of GT, or would I fit?
cheers
mike
Hi Mike,
depends on the rules of competition.
11,4 gramm is high for a 6 wt. but it's not yet a 7 wt. according to AFTMA.
If only GT125 6 wt. would be allowed, the rules would match for the typical weight range (normal production deviation possible) anyway.
If different lines are allowed, I would disqualify you, because the GT125 outcasts all other lines (giving you a huge advantage) :cool: :p .
Greets
Bernd
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The first cast is always the best cast.

Michal Duzynski
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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#12

Post by Michal Duzynski » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:08 pm

Thanks Mike

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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#13

Post by Michal Duzynski » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:20 pm

Cheers Bernd.
I know they wont check me, I just ask for my own sake.
Im taking my Hot Torpido,for the first competition on 10of Feb, and as in Italy they dont cast 5wt only 6wt, I matched my HT with Barrio GT 125 6wt. will let you know about he results.
cheers
mike

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James9118
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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#14

Post by James9118 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:10 pm

Mike - what weight is the production GT125 #5?

Cheers, James
Barrio wrote:Hi Michal

Bernd is a member of the Barrio Pro Team and many of the lines that he has and uses are in fact prototypes, these are not always the same weight or profile as the final retail product ;)

Best wishes
Mike

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Lasse Karlsson
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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#15

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:19 pm

Michal Duzynski wrote:Hi Bernd, thank you,
just one more thing- sorry of changing the subject in your thread, but its only for this last questions.
If Im using Barrio GT125 6Wt in a 6wt competition, and I got checked, would I get disqualified becouse of the 11.4g of GT, or would I fit?
cheers
mike
Hi Mike

As Bernd says it depends on the rules in that competition, but very few competitions I know of, would allow a line to be outside the AFFTA standard for the given line weight, and as you can see in Marc's post, highest weight allowed for a 6 weight line is 10,9 grams measured at 30 feet without any level tip.
That's why so many was checking their lines before competition in Norway. There is product deviations and sometimes a line ends up heavier than stated (or lighter) and even though there was just one line allowed (the SA ED) if I bought a brand new ED, just spooled it up, and it turned out to be above the limit, I would get disqualified, even if it was stated on the line that it was a SA ED 5 weight....

Cheers
Lasse
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Ben_d
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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#16

Post by Ben_d » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:28 pm

Heavy sinking lines have a significant higher density. This means less surface while having the same weight. Less surface means less friction (air/coating). Less friction means less resistance and so it also means less rod bend!

Personally I would make an adjustment in the best matching weight for my rod in relation to the density of my fly line in order to create the level of rod bend I feel best with!
What do you think?
Hi Bernd,

I'm not sure I get you here. If salt fishing here and with a Rio Outbound #9 intermediate I would probably be using my Helios 909TF, if I went to a sink 8 Outbound I would not change to a Helios 908 rod. I'm really not sure why you would want to do this? I know the OB is outside the spec so forget the line # Rio assign and instead examine two 37.5' integrated heads weighing 375 grains, one HiD and the other fast intermediate that both work my 909TF rod.
I'd keep the same rod and change the cast to open up the loop and slow it down a bit as I think most anglers would when going to a fast sinking line from something less dense. If I went to a softer rod I'd have to use even more arc to get the desired tip path to open up the loop wouldn't I or are are you saying that the increase in density thus reduced friction of line in the air will counteract the difference of reducing rod stiffness by a couple of ERN?

Cheers

Ben

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Bernd Ziesche
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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#17

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:01 pm

Hi Ben,
if you have access to two lines:
a) a floating line
b) a sinking line
both of the same weight around 14-15m and having a similar profile.
Then cast both lines (14-15m) with one rod and tell me what line weight you would have guessed for both lines.
That might be an interesting test :cool: .


Why do you open up the loop and slow down line speed when increasing density (sink rate)?
Greets
Bernd
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The first cast is always the best cast.

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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#18

Post by Ben_d » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:14 pm

I did exactly that test a few weeks back when buying a new rod Bernd, I know what you mean but I don't think the difference is sufficient to make be change up or down a few ERN when moving between the two lines. One feels like a HiD sinker suited to the rod and the other feels like a less dense line suited to the same rod, one moves noticeably faster through the air than the other for the same casting effort.

When fishing, using the gear outlined above, the HiD moves through the air faster and kicks on carries in a way that the floater or even the intermediate does not as there is less energy dissipated whilst the loop unrolls and the fly can come through low. Last thing I want is a Clouser in the arse :D

Cheers

Ben

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Bernd Ziesche
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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#19

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:10 pm

Hi Ben,
casting the same head length + same head weight in a) floating and b) sinking feels to me like casting a) a 5wt. floating line and b) the same floating line in 6wt.. Significant difference.
The sinking line has less surface and due to that we will have less resistance. So we could rotate faster (but indeed really don't have to). Even if we rotate faster the rod bend easily still will be less. So the sink line still feels lighter.
I can think of:
If one likes the 5wt. floating on his rod the 6wt. sinking might give him the same good feeling. As long as we talk about AFTMA conform lines in the area of 3-7wt.. Would need further tests to tell what it is for the upper range.

Casting a sinking line to me often results in tighter loops. Just because it is much easier to form them with a sinking line.
A Clouser I do cast with all kind of lines. Can be floating orheavy sinking lines. Yes, I may open the loop a bit, but that goes with all lines?!
Wish we could play around with that on the field :).
So far I have never seen this to be discussed. To me it is a very interesting topic.
Greets
Bernd
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The first cast is always the best cast.

Ben_d
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AFFTA Line classification floating vs. sinking lines

#20

Post by Ben_d » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:27 pm

casting the same head length + same head weight in a) floating and b) sinking feels to me like casting a) a 5wt. floating line and b) the same floating line in 6wt.. Significant difference.
Hi Bernd, I really don't think the difference is quite that great, certainly not in my experience anyway. There is a difference but I think it too slight to be worth worrying about really.
The sinking line has less surface and due to that we will have less resistance. So we could rotate faster (but indeed really don't have to). Even if we rotate faster the rod bend easily still will be less. So the sink line still feels lighter.
Has this been measured, how much faster could I rotate with sinker? I'm not sure I could feel a a difference in how fast I could rotate the rod, I am open to being convinced though but I'd want data
Casting a sinking line to me often results in tighter loops. Just because it is much easier to form them with a sinking line.
A Clouser I do cast with all kind of lines. Can be floating orheavy sinking lines. Yes, I may open the loop a bit, but that goes with all lines?!
Yes, I'd agree with that but do you not find that a sinking line cast in with the same effort as a floater of same mass tends to kick a bit harder Bernd?

Cheers

Ben

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