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Covered topics /how it works

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James9118
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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#111

Post by James9118 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:37 pm

Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:49 am
Loops also morph the other way, ie. from small to big... just throwing that into the mix here 😉

And that has to do with line velocity and where the flyleg is coming from.

Cheers
Lasse
Yes - BDB :D :pirate:

Cheers, James

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gordonjudd
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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#112

Post by gordonjudd » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:14 pm

I'd say the overriding reason behind loop morph is fly-leg momentum pulling the rod-leg taut
James,
Are you implying that momentum is some type of force that can pull on the rod leg? I thought it took a change in momentum to produce a force.
Gordy

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James9118
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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#113

Post by James9118 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:45 pm

gordonjudd wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:14 pm
I'd say the overriding reason behind loop morph is fly-leg momentum pulling the rod-leg taut
James,
Are you implying that momentum is some type of force that can pull on the rod leg? I thought it took a change in momentum to produce a force.
Gordy
Of course not, but you know that. You just want to point score don't you. I thought what I meant was so obvious that I didn't need to explain it further. But well done you.

James

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flyfisher666
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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#114

Post by flyfisher666 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:01 pm

Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:49 am
Loops also morph the other way, ie. from small to big... just throwing that into the mix here 😉

And that has to do with line velocity and where the flyleg is coming from.

Cheers
Lasse
Well.. if the line has more then one velocity just before loopformation anything could happen :sorcerer: ;)

But i don't see how it would be possible if the whole line has the same velocity in roughly the direction its pointing.

//Joakim

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gordonjudd
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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#115

Post by gordonjudd » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:37 pm

I'd say the overriding reason behind loop morph is fly-leg momentum pulling the rod-leg taut
and
I thought what I meant was so obvious that I didn't need to explain it further.
James,
You know that momentum is not a force, but many readers of this forum do. Same thing goes for inertia.

Thus that statement probably made perfect sense to them, but it not so obvious what you meant to someone who is familiar with Newton's formulation of his second law. I.e. F=dp/dt not the F=ma version that is generally given in high school physics.

So if it not momentum that is pulling the rod leg up what do you think are the overriding reasons for loop morph?

I honestly don't know what produces a Dolphin Nose loop and yet that shape shows up in a variety of loops such as the chain fountain.

Here is an example of the Duck head loop shape that shows up using a loop of fly line in the string shooter. No one has explained that shape either.
Image
Gordy

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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#116

Post by Geenomad » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:36 am

Thus that statement probably made perfect sense to them, but it not so obvious what you meant to someone who is familiar with Newton's formulation of his second law. I.e. F=dp/dt not the F=ma version that is generally given in high school physics.
A perfectly exquisite of example of so many things, not least of self parody given the thread title and the history/culture of this sub forum. Black humour. Onanistic obscurantism and it goes unchallenged because......

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Mark
(Who also doesn't post here anymore but just couldn't help himself on this occasion.)
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Paul Arden
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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#117

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:58 am

Well, I know how you guys take great pleasure in throwing socks at each other and I’m sure it’s a very thrilling pastime, but what I would like to do is deal more with the matter at hand.

I realise that there is a fundamental disagreement on the Loop itself. I’m very interested in that circle at the loop nose by the way. When it happens it’s remarkably in tune with the loop and unrolls from start to end. I really can’t work out how it forms. But since it does form and because the loop unrolls like normal - but with a circle of line at the nose - I would be interested to know how that fits with the somewhat polarised view as to how a loop propagates.

Thanks gentlemen!

Cheers, Paul
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#118

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:58 am

flyfisher666 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:01 pm
Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:49 am
Loops also morph the other way, ie. from small to big... just throwing that into the mix here 😉

And that has to do with line velocity and where the flyleg is coming from.

Cheers
Lasse
Well.. if the line has more then one velocity just before loopformation anything could happen :sorcerer: ;)

But i don't see how it would be possible if the whole line has the same velocity in roughly the direction its pointing.

//Joakim
Hi Joakim

I roughly agree 😉 try laying the line on the ground behind you, fully straight, make a slow forward cast throwing what starts as a super tight loop, and watch it morph bigger at the end of the cast.

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

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Dirk le Roux
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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#119

Post by Dirk le Roux » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:19 am

Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:58 am
I roughly agree 😉 try laying the line on the ground behind you, fully straight, make a slow forward cast throwing what starts as a super tight loop, and watch it morph bigger at the end of the cast.
Hi Lasse

Do you know of footage showing small to big morphing? I would love to analyse that.

All the best,
Dirk

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James9118
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Re: Covered topics /how it works

#120

Post by James9118 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:46 am

gordonjudd wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:37 pm

Thus that statement probably made perfect sense to them, but it not so obvious what you meant to someone who is familiar with Newton's formulation of his second law. I.e. F=dp/dt not the F=ma version that is generally given in high school physics.

So if it not momentum that is pulling the rod leg up what do you think are the overriding reasons for loop morph?


Gordy
Again you continue with your attempted points scoring.

Do you play conkers in California? Imagine I have a horse chestnut attached to a longer piece of string than in normal for the game. This string is coiled on the ground and i'm holding the nut. I throw the nut away from me and the string starts lifting into the air following the flight of the nut. Eventually it pulls tight (the other end is tied to my big toe).

I think it's pretty fucking obvious to everyone reading that in order to accelerate the string from its resting position on the ground, to somewhere in the air following the nut requires a force. This same force (equal and opposite) will retard the velocity of the nut, hence its momentum (F=dp/dt). Now let me ask you a very simple question (which no doubt you'll avoid) - what's the driver for the string lifting in this example? Is it pixies or the fact I've thrown the fucking nut :???:

So, the overiding reason for loop morph in a fly cast is exactly the same as in the example above. Twist that how you wish.

In the Anna Hedman cast what do you think lifts the line into the air?

James

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