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Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#11

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:20 pm

I would love to see a beginner with a MED 5 line and any rod that says 5 cast fine with it , heck even 50 % of fishers..
The rest 50% can make the hot potato 5 vs2 and MED5 worl just fine, but wont like it for their fishing, which is a completly different ballgame. Remind me why you hate overweight lines and why 95% of the fishing population love them?

I have told you before, but here we go again.

Pick anyone, and ask them if they have to change something in their casting stroke between a soft and a stiff rod, and all, every last one of them, will swear on their life that you absolutly HAVE to change, pause, acceleration, casting angle/arc, etc. From having to wait for a pibe and a lunchpack for the line to unroll in the backcast, to feathering the forward cast lest you tail magnificently. That the same stroke for a stiff rod will produce the worst of tangles for a softer rod, or the other way, that a softer rod will mask the mistakes you have with the stiffer rod etc....

Now, can you pick up a soft rod and refrain from trying to compensate for something?
Answer will be no...

Stefan has a absolute softie of a rod, he took it out for a night cast once I was up there and we where walking the dog. Told me it was impossible to throw the full MED with... said he was wrong, 170 that noodle and out it went to the backing.. then he beat me by putting the backing knot outside... but yeah, those things are crap for distance...🤣

You cast best with what you like, if you're crap, anything can be believed and you'll buy into that the rod is magic.
If you're good, your mind will sometimes play a trick on your body, and you need to keep that mofo in check, your body knows how to throw stuff around quite well. The brain messes shit up...

Sure hope we do!

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Lasse
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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#12

Post by nicholasfmoore » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:53 pm

Hi both,
Inappropriate application of force shows up regardless of rod stiffness ;)
Very true 😉 i think everything can come down to an inappropriate application of force anyway 😉

What do you think about 'fast rods' requiring better timing? I've never been convinced of this.

All the best
Nick M

"Memento Piscantur Saepe" :upside:

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#13

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:28 am

Hi Nick

I agree 😉

And why would they? Does the line move faster?

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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#14

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:34 am

Hi Lasse,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Have you done the blind tests with students? And thrown in a mismatched (seriously underlined outfit)? Only about 1 in 10 can get serviceable loops. (I know that the standard of casting is higher in Denmark than many other places, but you have been other places!)

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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#15

Post by James9118 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:51 am

I have a thought experiment, or better still a real exercise, to consider. If you take a MED #5 and put a flag on the 85ft carry point then what are the experiences of aerialising to the flag on different stiffness rods? Would the carry on a rod marked #3 be as easy as on a rod marked #7 or #10? If not, why not?
My personal experience is that I find a big carry easier on a stiff rod. We all know what outfits are being cast in the #5 TD event at the WCs etc. is that just because we're practicing with stiff rods or is there an advantage?

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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#16

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:19 pm

James, you remember my ERN 5,7,9,11 and 13 test right?

And how my longest carry and longest casts came from the test rod that wasn't in the rods being tested 😉 and all carried 85 feet, mostly because I could carry that much at the time... the rods I knew the best, carried the most, or I could carry the most with them.....

I would so love for someone else to do the same experiment, we've been having the same arguments the last 7 years since I did...

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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#17

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:25 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:34 am
Hi Lasse,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Have you done the blind tests with students? And thrown in a mismatched (seriously underlined outfit)? Only about 1 in 10 can get serviceable loops. (I know that the standard of casting is higher in Denmark than many other places, but you have been other places!)

Cheers, Paul
Seriously underlined outfit in Denmark :D
Apart from the underlined BS, which I'm just going to go along with here, then it would be using a line that follows AFFTA standard on a rod with the same number here , and yeah 1 in 100 might get it to work, that has really nada to do with the rod and line, but everything to do with what I already wrote about tricks of the mind and personal preference. And of course, lack of practice.. why practice, just buy the newest rod, it will have you throwing further with less effort ;)

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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#18

Post by James9118 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:31 pm

Hi Lasse, have you tried the same carry with something like a #3?

I do remember your test, and Tracy and I repeated it. She'd never previously cast a #5 MED on a rod marked #10, but that's the one that went furthest for her (she did bomb out with the #12 rod though). My distances went with the rod numbers but the #12 just felt like I got lucky with one cast.

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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#19

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:08 pm

but everything to do with what I already wrote about tricks of the mind and personal preference
Well these have been blind tests. A good caster can make them all work but an inexperienced caster can’t. So there must be adjustments between them.

I have obviously done tests with different outfits and different people casting them, and I’m not getting the same “doesn’t make a difference”/“one you know best” results That you are. Which is interesting. That’s why I was asking if you’ve repeated the tests with others.

The carry test doesn’t really work for me because the MED starts to give problems with overhang so the differences between 5 and 10WT rods are less pronounced. If it was a 150’ DT then I think that the differences would be more apparent.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Q: Fast/slow/tip/butt/stiff/soft rods

#20

Post by James9118 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:28 pm

Hi Paul,

I think you're missing the point with the MED test - fix the carry at 85ft with a flag of tape on the line, this eliminates guessing the carry. Than see how each outfit feels. Do you think it will be as easy with a #3 rod as with a #10 etc.

Cheers, James

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