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Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:05 am
by Dirk le Roux
gordonjudd wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:00 pm
Did you compute the haul speed by taking the derivative of the distance between the stripper guide and the haul hand?
Gordy, as I couldn't track the stripper guide well enough, I used the high contrast point between cork and reel seat to get the haul speed. At the high-haul-speed stage, the hauling hand, reel seat and stripper guide were roughly in line.

Upon your question, I did try again to track the stripper guide and was debatably able to do so on the "late release" cast. It made a slight difference and shifted my call on max haul speed to earlier than halfway between MCL and RSP.

The video I downloaded had progressed motion only at every eighth frame, so calculating anything close to true velocities doesn't help. Lasse rummaged for the original clips but couldn't find them yet.

All the best,
Dirk

Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:27 am
by Paul Arden
Orange thumbs and an orange stripping guide would be a good idea for filming. I’m going to shoot (film) the snakehead shot when my new lines arrive. With one of them I’ll mark it up with black permanent marker pen. Any suggestions for a good marking length? Alternate every 10cm? Or maybe every 12 inches?

Thanks, Paul

Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:49 am
by Graeme H
Every metre is best. Too close together causes tracking confusion and when they are exactly a metre apart, it's easy to use them for calibration of the video.

Cheers,
Graeme

Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:30 am
by Lasse Karlsson
Paul Arden wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:02 am
Very interesting. When we see the loop unroll on the 170 the loop point is close to the top. I had assumed that this was related to peak haul speed (there was a video of Lasse finishing his back haul around this point). However I can see now that it might be peak tip speed since that’s considerably before RSP.

Surely if the line speed at this stage in loop formation is higher then this will also help explain loop morph from round to top point?

Certainly when I look at the images above I can see a case for the haul peaking considerably pre RSP. (That’s another spanner in the works of everything I’ve been teaching the past 20 years :D).

I wish I had somewhere like where Lasse casts. I’ll have a bit of a butcher’s next time I’m in Grik.

Cheers, Paul
Hi Paul

The old clip, posted 12 years ago where some of us began to think that the point shows up at the point where line velocity is highest, linevelocity would be a compination of tipspeed and linespeed (haulspeed) either can of course be higher at different points, and in the case of the bouncing bomb casts, we move the tip and line alot after peak line velocity is achived thus making a huge loop that right after gets morphed smaller. Also one of the reasons why hauling through RSP and all the way to MCF didn't really make any sense.

After two to three years of construction work, the blue wall is free again, come by when the world isn't so much on fire and we can shoot all the clips you have on backorder ;)

Cheers
Lasse

Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:00 am
by Paul Arden
I think we’re probably doing the same thing Lasse. It’s just you think you’re doing one thing and I think I’m doing another. Peak tip speed (not line speed) significantly prior to RSP however is new.

Every metre can be done, Graeme. The other option is different colours.

Cheers, Paul

Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:24 am
by Merlin
I still think the haul speed is low
Paul

I read again the study performed by Ulrik and Grunde three years ago, and max haul speed for a competition cast with trout tackle and MED5 was in the 8 m/s to 12 m/s range.

Playing with the 2D model I find that the “best” compromise for PHV is to have it around MCL (some 55 ms to 75 ms after MAV). If you delay PHV up to RSP you lose tip speed and it is unlikely that you can make a release at RSP, if you anticipate closer to MAV you get more speed but you take the risk of a tail in the fly leg.

Merlin

Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:31 am
by Mangrove Cuckoo
Merlin wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:24 am

Playing with the 2D model I find that the “best” compromise for PHV is to have it around MCL (some 55 ms to 75 ms after MAV). If you delay PHV up to RSP you lose tip speed and it is unlikely that you can make a release at RSP, if you anticipate closer to MAV you get more speed but you take the risk of a tail in the fly leg.

Merlin
FWIW...

When I have been playing with hauls (non comp casts), I have been concentrating on releasing the line at the midpoint of the haul, not the end. It is a tough habit to break and seems weird... but it has revealed something quite unexpected.

I think I am releasing post MCL but as soon after as I am physically able. As soon as I sense (imagine?) the rod butt has begun to unload, I open the fingers of my line hand.
My haul motion continues to the end but the line is already shooting.

There is magic in a fly rod that is not apparent when you force it to absorb your input instead of allowing it to relax within its natural parameters... but, then again, I have been accused of smoking too much weed in my youth!

Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:18 pm
by James9118
Paul Arden wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:02 am
Very interesting. When we see the loop unroll on the 170 the loop point is close to the top. I had assumed that this was related to peak haul speed
I think the position of the point of the loop is due to the fact you've aligned the bulk of the fly-line (in the fly-leg) and given it momentum along a certain path. The fly-line will continue along this path until it encounters something that will change its course, i.e. it runs into the portion of line which is tethered to the rod.

Cheers, James.

Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:04 am
by Dirk le Roux
Mangrove Cuckoo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:31 am
There is magic in a fly rod that is not apparent when you force it to absorb your input instead of allowing it to relax within its natural parameters... but, then again, I have been accused of smoking too much weed in my youth!
Hi Gary

A favourite drill for me is, on the forward cast, to air transfer the rod handle to the line hand as soon as possible. Lightly throw it up and catch it with the line hand, or something similar. If throwing and catching is a bit much to handle, just pass the rod between hands, though ideally you want a moment of air time for the rod. The game for me is, cutting any interference with the rod's behaviour, to see for how much of the unrolling and shoot I can "sit back and relax", watching beautiful physics at work. From the bit I tried to execute your drill, I suspect you will find the result is very similar to that.

It comes from a party trick Ed Jaworowski makes somewhere during this show.

All the best,
Dirk

Re: Shooted cast

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:05 am
by Dirk le Roux
Dirk le Roux wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:04 am
It comes from a party trick Ed Jaworowski makes somewhere during this show.
The hand-switch/juggle shot is at 3.03 in the video.