PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

Moderator: Torsten

Dirk le Roux
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:09 pm
Answers: 0
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#11

Post by Dirk le Roux »

John Waters wrote:Of the pivots in the vertical plane, shoulder is primary, elbow is secondary and wrist is tertiary. That segmentation and the relative level of importance is based upon the muscle groups involved. Ditto speed generated. In the horizontal plane, hip and torso rotation are the key to speed. Your overlays show the speed generated by Steve's stroke.

I am sure Haysie talked about tip speed and the relativity to distance achieved. The key is how much you generate and how it impacts the loop. Look to the body to generate speed, not the rod.

John
Hi John

I think i understand now. It's a whole body-rod spring starting from feet to knees, hips, shoulder, elbow to wrist. And the rod is an extension of the arm and ultimately of the whole body. Speed and path of the subsequent muscle groups/pivots start from the ground up. Some guys even step around with either foot as they rock back and forth. It's difficult to analyse the lower bits though, not to mention making the resultant graph more confusing. Yet, to see what happens from the shoulder up should be useful as the shoulder path results from what happens in the lower bits, not? :???:

My initial interest was not so much about speed as about investigating subtle movements as well as often bandied terms such as "lead with the elbow", "late as possible rotation" "dip in hand path resulting in dipped rod tip path and tailing loops" (which seems the contrary now), etc. Though speed is the goal i think it's how efficiently movement is applied that make for good efficient speed and distance.

PS see comments around Stefan Viikaara's cast in my reply to Marc's suggestions.

All the best,
Dirk
Dirk le Roux
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:09 pm
Answers: 0
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#12

Post by Dirk le Roux »

Sure thing Marc

The footage from your site had a difficult camera angle (need to be side-on) but i found good snips of the two Swedish wizards so here we go.

http://imageshack.us/a/img5/3383/zrak.jpg
Fredrik Hedman - very tidy...

and Stefan
http://imageshack.us/a/img199/3023/89dj.jpg
Most athletic! Check out the position of his left foot at the end of the thrust. Echo man extreme! Also his loose grip - wish i could get to that.

Both exhibit long time spent at the turns (drift, readjust etc.) but Stefan shows, apart from the fact that his elbow never goes behind the shoulder, an almost stationary pause between back and forward strokes of more than 0.6s! The intervals are precisely 0.2s (video frame time anyway), apart from the interrupted line bits which are at 0.1s.

PS John, hauling and its timing needless to say is very important to speed and so far all footage i checked show the haul on the forward/delivery extending beyond RSP, as it should ;) so i saw no need to incorporate hauling in the plots yet.

All the best,
Dirk
Dirk le Roux
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:09 pm
Answers: 0
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#13

Post by Dirk le Roux »

Thanks Vince

What's a "chump" caster? I'm not English so maybe missing something.
User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 19528
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Answers: 2
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#14

Post by Paul Arden »

Hi Dirk and welcome to the Board! Excellent post.

I think the up part of the wrist on final rotation is actually a consequence of the rod unloading. We can certainly emphasise it to raise the tip during CF and therefore tighten the bottom leg of the loop. But mostly in this case I think it's rod-driven as opposed to rod-driving.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions
User avatar
Marc Fauvet
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:00 pm
Answers: 0
Location: Pyrénées, France
Contact:

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#15

Post by Marc Fauvet »

Dirk le Roux wrote:What's a "chump" caster? I'm not English so maybe missing something.
where i grew up 'chump' was closely associated to 'chimp'. i believe Vince is saying he casts with his feet. :D
User avatar
Zoran Marinkovic
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:37 pm
Answers: 0
Location: South Africa & Serbia via London and between ...

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#16

Post by Zoran Marinkovic »

Probably the most excellent entry post ever on SL :D
Welcome Dirk !
Cheers,
Zoran
User avatar
VGB
Posts: 6128
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:04 pm
Answers: 0

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#17

Post by VGB »

Sorry Dirk, I would not have guessed that English was not your first language. Chump means useless. Marc is nearly right, my casting style was a result of a misunderstanding about the meaning of butt rotation.
Casting instruction - making simple things complicated since 1765

https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... f-coaching
User avatar
Walter
Posts: 2044
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:06 pm
Answers: 0

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#18

Post by Walter »

Zoran Marinkovic wrote:Probably the most excellent entry post ever on SL :D
Welcome Dirk !
Cheers,
Zoran
Certainly one of the best ever in the technical forum as well. Thanks for sharing DIrk! :D

Walter
"There can be only one." - The Highlander. :pirate:

PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.

PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.
Dirk le Roux
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:09 pm
Answers: 0
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#19

Post by Dirk le Roux »

Only a pleasure guys!

Vince, I've been wondering what creature your avatar was, then saw a chance article on the BLOBFISH having been recently voted the world's ugliest animal.

All the best,
Dirk
Dirk le Roux
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:09 pm
Answers: 0
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

SLP AND SHOULDER , ELBOW, WRIST PATHS

#20

Post by Dirk le Roux »

Zoran Marinkovic wrote: Cheers,
Zoran
Zoran you still in Johburg?
Post Reply

Return to “Flycasting Physics”