Is there intelligence in fish?

[Paul Arden]

Because the Goirami seem to have it. Not very much of course. In the same way that trout have it but much more so. I don't see why not since evolution is a funny thing.

Cheers, Paul

[t.z.]

Well, I feel this a rather arrogant question ... or better said - is there intelligence in humans? and what is intelligence?

To me it seems sometimes that ants and bees have a much better functioning society than the human race. It´s more amtter of what is achieved with the skills given by nature, and humans have fucked up. Adipose thumb, language, communication, learning skill, making tools, ability teach each other ... and what do we mainly do with that? Killing each other takes most of that skill. A fucking disgrace if you ask me.

So yes, the little trout and those ugly fish you hunt are certainly using all their abilities to the fullest, which is astonishing as well as shameful fact.

[Paul Arden]

I'm sure we're not perfect, Thomas

I spend a lot of my time now watching baby Gourami. Just fascinating. No wonder their parents are so hard to catch.

I don't believe that fish "think". Certainly not abstract thought. I wonder if they dream!

Cheers, Paul

[John Finn]

Great front page from Gary on Tues. Fish mostly for trout , and find that small changes in a fly can make a difference especially when the particular food source is plentiful and fish are locked on. eg I am currently a fan of trailing shucks and these are mostly on size 18 hooks and seem to make a difference. Dont know about bigger predators but trout have excellent eye sight and can see small objects much better than I can.
Gary I'm sure you will be trying bait fish patterns without eyes and comparing. All my pike flys have eyes but I dont catch enough to compare non eyed patterns. Would be very interested to read your results. I would imagine that fine details are not as important on bigger flys but eyes are a big detail......................John

[Galah]

I don't think so. By most definitions, intelligence has something to do with problem-solving ability. I don't see fish solving many problems. And the problems they do solve - getting food and shelter - I believe they solve by instinct, not reasoning. I think they're beautiful creatures but no, not intelligent.

@t.z. - intelligence, and what we use it for, does not necessarily have to be benign or good. That doesn't mean it's not intelligent. I agree it would be a better world if we all used out intelligence for good things though.

[Paul Arden]

The reason I ask re gourami is because I once watched one inspect a fly for five minutes and refuse it. 30 second refusals/eats are not uncommon. I've watched them refuse, swim away 5 metres and return and eat the fly. It's the only fish I know that does this.

Cheers, Paul

[t.z.]

I have had that with trout (not 30 seconds though) ... must be the flies ;-)

[John Finn]

The reason I ask re gourami is because I once watched one inspect a fly for five minutes and refuse it. 30 second refusals/eats are not uncommon. I've watched them refuse, swim away 5 metres and return and eat the fly. It's the only fish I know that does this.

Surely the problem here is the heavy braid tippet and heavy guage hooks. I reckon trout would react the same way to this kind of gear. Probably not take as long but refuse none the less.
Would be interesting to compare the reaction to flys tied on smaller light hooks and say 4X tippet. I know there would be no chance of landing them but it would tell you something.....maybe ?....................John

[Paul Arden]

I have tried that! It would be interesting to try braid on trout and I will next time I fish for them. I'd be surprised if it makes much difference. I grew up with brown Maxima!!

[Paul Arden]

I can't imagine a trout ever inspecting the fly for five minutes!!!! I've had ten second refusals of course. But five minutes!!