Lifting power of a fly rod

[Michal Duzynski]

Hi
In this thread Im looking after pulling power of a fly rod. Obviously if its combine with strong drag reel, where you can tire the fish it might be different, but......
  Now after reading and reading ( never put one of my rods in such a pressure), question comes to mind.
  Before I ask I know that some anglers use odd number on fly rod lableing and some use even numbers.
  Im the even number man.
 I have 6, 8, 2x10, and if I would go for tarpon or GT I would search for 12wt lable rod.
  Now this pictures shows massive tarpon cought on  11wt Scott meridian.
and here comes main question-
  How do you know, and how do you describe the differece between 10wt an 11 wt rod.
They say 10wt might be to light for GT or Tarpon- 11 or 12 will be better.
How much stronger then 10wt is 11wt, how much weeker in 10 from 11?????
Cheers
Mike

[Lasse Karlsson]

No idea
One brands 10 might be stiffer than another brands 12 and even in the same brand there might be differences...

Found this one to give a little clue:

https://youtu.be/ibJeIJedmY8

Cheers
Lasse

[sms]

Lifting power? You want a short lever to fish to have, but so that the rod won't break. Short lever equals deep down bending. And you want a long handle (or a fighting handle if you like the separate ones). Then you can get to bends something like in this video.
https://youtu.be/6t53DqViXVc?t=74

I have a couple of #8, had a #9 blank (that was not stiff at all), one #10, one #10-11 maybe (it is the heavier TFO Esox), one #12 (and another #12 to blank to be built), #13-15 (TFO bluewater MD) and a #16. The BW MD has good lifting power, but if it was less stiff and/or bent more down, it would be easier to put shitloads of pressure on fish. The #12 I broke like a twig with its first day - the captain missed the gaffing (maybe the first time ever for that guy as he hit the mark super accurately on the tens of fish we caught from a very rocky boat in big swell) and the dorado went bezerk by the side of the boat and I still had my reel drag cranked to max. I was not even badly high sticking, maybe 90 degree angle actually and the rod broke at the bottom section (4-pc rod).

Tarpon - are you going to fish deep water or why do you need lifting power? If the fish doesn't sound, you can use very low angles and you do not need much lifting power. Heck, I've put 6kg on a scale with my #5 on low angles. I would break the thing in an instant if I would put 5kg drag and tried to lift a tuna (they always sound).

I would be very interested to try to Echo BAG #12 with tuna as that might be the super thing for it (and the reasonably priced option vs. Epic Boca Grande) as it must be lighter to use than the TFO BW MD, must take lighter lines (equals more selection) and the lever must shorten more easier and should be able to take it being glass (easier to put the pressure on fish and possibly a chance for me to use all the drag on my tweaked Mako. Something that I can't use with the TFO or my arm will totally be shattered - or I fall in). I just hope my friend gets one for test on our May tuna trip and I get to try it too.

[Michal Duzynski]

Cheers guys
Im not planing anything yet, but reading Aussie forums makes me wonder.
I was thinking of refrasing my question, as after reading your posts( good one) "lifting power" was not the thing I was after.
I might give an example.
Guys getting ready to CXI trip:
For small to mid Bones 6-8wt, and the different rod wt are for wind conditions, not the power of the fish.
Then for GT's 12 will be good. I say I have 10wy, they say -I reckon it will be to light to stop big GT, you need atleast 11wt.

and there you go ( no brands here) what the 11 has that 10 doesnt in order to stop big fish( we looking at stoping fish- not castung conditions or fly size).
Does 1number in the lable make such a big difference, is there more carbon fiber overall to make it stronger, and higher the number more carbon?

Some might say casting 10wt lable rod "THIS ONE FEELS LIKE 11WT" Doest it mean that for that person this rod will be enough to stop a GT even if its lable 10wt???

I feel like Im running in circles here, but this is what I read around.
For me I might be wrong 2 numbers step up (from 10 to 12) seems like there might be some difference, but whrn Im told that 10wt wont make what 11wt can do- then I start to wonder.
Cheers
Mike

[Lasse Karlsson]

It probably means that dude wants a 11 weight line on that 10wt as it feels too stiff for him....

I can't give you an answer on this though, I have a feeling that it will be beefed up, more carbon or glasfiber, stiffer and such... I have a friend who's mad for GT 's, he won't go below a 12....
If you can wait a couple of months, I'll ask someone who should be able to give a good answer

Cheers
Lasse

[Michal Duzynski]

Thanks Lasse, no worries.
From asking around I know that Big GT were pulled on TFO Ticr 12 and its a $200 rod.
I know Vince in Gold Coast who pulls out 10kg Kingfish on a 5wt rod( no idea of a brand), the other guy broke a Hardy's 10wt rod(one of the latest one- dont remember the name) on the same size Kingfish( maybe to much of a high sticking).
Also from reading I know that billfish starts from 12-14wt rods, but here we know those are heavy rods.
....but this gap between 10 and 12 intrests me.

As an example- How undergyn am I with HT10wt if we talking 20kg GT( teoreticly).
Dont rush Lasse
Mike

[Michal Duzynski]

.....lets say casting big flies is not an issue....

[Graeme H]

Mike, I guess what you're really after is "pulling power" rather than lifting. Lifting implies the force will be used to raise the fish upwards, whereas pulling implies the fish is to be pulled towards you, regardless of the direction the fish is going to travel.

Personally, I don't think it matters too much because fighting technique is the main variable. We can choose the angle our rod makes with the line and take a lot of the stiffness of the rod out of the equation. At the extremity, it's just a straight tug of war, fish on one end, reel on the other.

Having said that, I get great results with short rods. They are easier to fight the fish with, they feel lighter when casting (so a 12wt rod casts like a 10wt), they inherently make tighter loops and are more accurate at hitting the target. I also now choose 'glass rods for those rods, but not the commercially available tapers. I'm getting blanks rolled that have actions similar to fast-medium CF rods: my current favourite 10wt has a butt section that was specified as a 13wt. Pulls like a semi-trailer - casts like a sports ute!

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

Fighting really is technique as everyone says, however a stiffer rod certainly helps assist poor technique. That said there is a definite advantage when having a stiffer rod and playing strong fish simply because you can angle to pull to turn the fish. Conversely having a softer rod is good for playing fish in currents and small flies for anglers who like to give fish the butt.

I do find quite a difference when going through respective line weights/optimal (for me) rod stiffness. Even one rating makes a difference but it's small. Two is quite significant. However if you have a 10 - which you do! - then a 12 is what you probably need next.

Incidentally I can see no point in fishing a rod intentionally soft just for the sake of it. At the extreme you are giving away control during the fight and I consider that to be poor fishing in the same way that fishing an unnecessarily fine leader is too.

Cheers, Paul

[Michal Duzynski]

"PULLING POWER" there you go, thanks Greame. I knew I was close.
I know Paul, seems obvious that 12wt would be next step, but if there is a super barging for a 11wt- shell I bother.
I have 10wt already what XTRA 11wt gives me. Yes this massive Tarpon was on 11wt, but is there so much more carbon and the build is different that puts my well made 10wt out of the game?

I will wait for Lasses friend response
Mike