New SW line by RIO

[Paul Arden]

But Lasse, you mostly throw distance for imaginary coastal sea trout. That's mostly just distance. Fishing the flats for SW fish is about accuracy at around 10-20 metres.

Now it may well be that the angler bought a rod that was too stiff for his "method of casting", and he is more comfortable with a heavier line than AFFTA scale. But RIO are making this choice for everyone as standard. If let's assume for a second, the rod wasn't too stiff, then he will now need a stiffer rod to maintain the action/feel of the cast. Where does it end?

It doesn't make any sense to me. There is one standard, it is not a rod standard; it is a line standard. You cannot have a line one line weight heavier! It is simply not possible to have a 7WT line weighing an 8WT because then it actually becomes an 8WT line. What gives the line a certain number, is not what number is written on the rod, it is how much the first 30 feet weighs. You know this!

It would be like going to the sea-trout event with a 38g shooting head labelled 27g - see how far that gets you

Where is all goes wrong IMO, is that many still believe that the purpose of the line is to load the rod. The truth however is that it goes fly, line, rod. If you are casting a heavy fly then you need a heavier line. If you are casting a tiny little nymph on 7X then the last thing you want is a heavy line. That's the basis of the system right there. Get that bit organised and work out which rod is best for you. I actually agree that many SW rods are too stiff, particularly in the butt section. So either buy a rod rated for a lower line weight or a different brand.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

It would be like going to the sea-trout event with a 38g shooting head labelled 27g - see how far that gets you

Cheers, Paul

Fucking far, and then hope to not be picked for tackle control

Now I have fished flats for imaginary bonefish, and permissions and stuff, so I do know what's at stake there, contrary to you knowing that there's more to fishing for searun browntrout than chucking far... I also enjoy fishing for brakish pike, where I pick them out of the holes in the weed, needs accuracy, and I prefer a shootinghead and a big fly for this, and sometimes need to hit a saucer sized spot at 100 feet, next one is at 30.....

Falsly labelling, and sheer bollocks I completly agree are stupid and shouldn't happen. The rest, well I'm not on your side there I prefer being right

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

I prefer a shootinghead and a big fly for this, and sometimes need to hit a saucer sized spot at 100 feet, next one is at 30.....

That's a great skill to have. I've often thought about it for Snakehead but the fight would be a problem. Maybe with rubber-tipped gloves it could work... the problem is applying 10KG of force by holding shooting line. Something to play with next month when I'm back (but is it fly fishing?)

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

(but is it fly fishing?)

Cheers, Paul

Who cares

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

I remember an article by Mike Conner who recommended the use of basically long weighted floats with the fly attached to a leader at the back. Basically you can throw these a bloody long way.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Ever tried bombarda fishing? Its a floating weight, with essentially a leader behind and then a fly, cast on a spinning rod.. Goes further than any flyline cast... Also the basis of one of my demos

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Nope. There are a few things I don't do. That's one of them. Groundbaiting is another. Scented flies a third.

[Boisker]

[quote="Paul Arden"
......... is that it goes fly, line, rod. If you are casting a heavy fly then you need a heavier line. If you are casting a tiny little nymph on 7X then the last thing you want is a heavy line. That's the basis of the system right there. Get that bit organised and work out which rod is best for you. I actually agree that many SW rods are too stiff, particularly in the butt section. So either buy a rod rated for a lower line weight or a different brand.

Cheers, Paul[/quote]

That makes a lot of sense Paul.
But what consideration would you give to wind?
I visited NZ last winter... common consensus is a 5 or 6 w rod is best, but I get the impression that people are slowly going lower.
I had a day with a guide in the Nelson area, I said at home my usual river fishing was with my 4w which I much preferred to cast all day, but that I had only brought two 6w's with me to NZ (I don't own a 5w and had to borrow one of the 6's as a spare)... I was gutted when he said his usual rod was a 4w and he only got the 5 or 6 w's out when it was real windy.
Similarly they fish small flies, say size 18 on far heavier tippet, than I ever would at home.

So how much would you consider wind or fish size rather than choosing a rod based on fly size? (I guess you could add type of water as well, as they have some some seriously heavy / fast flows).

[Paul Arden]

To be completely honest, with enough line speed I believe can just about handle any wind, Boisker. Never in all of my fishing have I used a heavier line due to wind. However I know quite a few who are going to disagree with that statement. Where I would look closer at is rod action, a stiffer rod can be rotated quicker generating much higher line speed. Of course if casting technique doesn't allow for really high line speeds then a heavier line (with a relatively stiffer rod) is the answer.

Another consideration is that a stiffer rod applies slightly more force to the tippet (when required) when the rod is used a fish fighting lever. I remember one season fishing a 5WT (XP) in the backcountry and being unhappy on two accounts (one: it wasn't good at turning over long leaders with tungsten and two: there were a few times I didn't feel I had the same fish fighting control). Knowing what I know now, about how much force a fly rod used as a lever applies at the line end, I'm actually a bit surprised about this. But I am noticing this at the stiffer end of the scale too.

Anyway backcountry NZ I would still use a 6WT. Lowland rivers and Stillwaters I'd fish a 4. The flies are often just too heavy and bulky for anything else.

That's all just my opinion of course - and while I fished NZ for a very great deal of my life I haven't visited in 7 years. I know lots of guys who now fish size 20 as the trailing nymph in the Backcountry - when I was there we fished a size 16. So it's also possible that I'm out of date too

Cheers, Paul

[Boisker]

Makes sense Paul... at normal fishing distances i can generate a fast enough line speed to cope with pretty much any wind I would bother heading out to fish in, so you'd be on a whole different level... I only ever use a 4w or below in the UK...
Controlling fish through playing them 'gently' and good use of angles as opposed to relying on more pressure from a heavier rod interests me, as there is an arguememt you can propose that with a lighter rod and applying less pressure you can control a fish just as well.... I've discussed with some tenkara guys online, there's a vid of 5lb brown caught on a tenkara rod, where they strongly believe very good skills at playing the fish linked with less pressure on the fish reduces how much the fish 'fires' up.... I've been trying it recently at home on larger fish (obviously not on huge NZ style fish), it can take slightly longer to net the fish, but they aren't charging about and seem to relax more, so they have plenty of energy left when you net them and recover immediately... not sure how much that would hold true in really heavy flows.... sorry a bit off topic.
I think as good as reason as any for the heavier rod is casting some of the real heavy tungsten flies, I wouldn't want to try that with my 4w, but one thing for definite is next time I get the chance to visit NZ I'm taking my 4w for dries.