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Fly Line Database

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Fly Line Database

#51

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:28 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:09 am
Yeah it would!! I think that there is some different dynamics going on with head vs long belly lines. It’s not only a reversed MED that flies further as a head but it’s something I’ve heard in a few other places too. That was just the first time I heard about it.

It would be interesting to chop up something a bit more extreme like a TT and turn that into a reversible Head.

Cheers, Paul
I would really really really like to have some numbers on the reversed MED thing flying further, as it doesn't for me, and it makes me feel slightly inferior 😉

And presently (and for the last like 5 years) I have been using a barstool line that have a similar taper to the TT, cut up into a head, and reversed it for my fishing, as you know I use shootingheads like 99,99% of my fishing time.

Cheers
Lasse
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Merlin
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Re: Fly Line Database

#52

Post by Merlin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:15 pm

Thanks Graeme

Straightforward and clear comments

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

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James9118
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Re: Fly Line Database

#53

Post by James9118 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:27 pm

Angular momentum.

Just sticking that here, as I have done in many threads before. :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

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Merlin
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Re: Fly Line Database

#54

Post by Merlin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Really James?

I can say that Graeme’s comments fit the basic momentum equations, but I am not ready to open a can of worms about line tension and the like. Especially as long as this topic is not in the tech forum.

Any suggestion about the data set? Paul’s suggestion seems to be a bit too large, but it is only my opinion.

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

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James9118
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Re: Fly Line Database

#55

Post by James9118 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:16 pm

Yes, really.

How does a distance caster delay turn over - overhang, light line in loop transferring into heavier.
Why do 'spey-taper' lines turn over so fast - heavier line transferring into light.
Why do shooting head casts fail when the overhang is too big etc.

Constantly ignored but it fits perfectly with real world observations.

John Waters
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Re: Fly Line Database

#56

Post by John Waters » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:48 pm

Interesting discussion, when I made my distance lines by splicing different line diameters and lengths to make up a tournament lines for the two distance events, namely a 1 ounce or 28 gram line and a 1.5 ounce or 42 gram line, I had three designs available for any one day. One for strong wind, one for average wind and one for no wind. The difference was where the weight was distributed, or the length of the front taper. In those days each caster had to construct their distance lines as none were available as a purchased line. The design of any distance line needs to be function of mass, total head length and turnover speed desired, and that is always conditions dependent.

John

John Waters
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Re: Fly Line Database

#57

Post by John Waters » Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:12 am

You’re right James, the caster increases the permutations available by amending overhang length. Line design and overhang are drivers to distance and their selection order is important per day.

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Merlin
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Re: Fly Line Database

#58

Post by Merlin » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:14 am

James

My "really" was referring to this:
Just sticking that here, as I have done in many threads before.
And about momentum, there is no issue for me:
I can say that Graeme’s comments fit the basic momentum equations
But using momentum is of little practical use for fishermen. It is much better to use that:
How does a distance caster delay turn over - overhang, light line in loop transferring into heavier.
Why do 'spey-taper' lines turn over so fast - heavier line transferring into light.
And you did not answered the question which is relevant to this thread:
Any suggestion about the data set?
John did incidentally:
The design of any distance line needs to be function of mass, total head length and turnover speed desired, and that is always conditions dependent.
And what about accuracy? This is more focused on fishing conditions. From what Graeme's mentioned, the front and rear taper are important, but there is a choice to make to describe that: would you use "reverse TT" for example? Or a complete description of the taper, which means more data? Are you in agreement with Paul's suggestion about the data that should be included in the database to describe lines?

When can we expect MCI's to agree on a single description of the main information needed in the fly line database?

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

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Lee Cummings
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Re: Fly Line Database

#59

Post by Lee Cummings » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:40 am

A reversed TT is not much use, as the back taper (which you wish to act as the front when reversing) is too short and it kicks like a mule.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Fly Line Database

#60

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:14 am

I still remember the toffee-vodka night where James told me that angular momentum is conserved. If we are looking at the effect of tapers then what happens as it goes around the loop must be very important. In fact I would imagine that that is actually the most important thing.

However I'm not convinced that needs to be in the database, it could be linked to the database on a case by case basis. I think then we would have to measure the line in very short intervals. You would need diameter, density and mass per short interval. I do think that would be fascinating information. Maybe instead of every line we could do this for specific types of tapers. And then one can apply the conclusions of one taper to another line with a similar taper.

Cheers, Paul
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