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Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

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Paul Arden
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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#11

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:04 pm

Oh yeah - should probably have been a new thread :cool:
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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#12

Post by nicholasfmoore » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:44 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:33 am
Hi Nick, welcome to the Board :D

Cheers, Paul
Thank you, Paul!
James9118 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:48 am
nicholasfmoore wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:43 pm
The reason for this is the fact i use a pull through stroke (as Mel Krieger said "like throwing a javelin") which you can't do with a tip action rod, you have to push them through the stroke
Hi Nick,

I think we met at Sportfish - I was with Tracy from the BFCC.

Welcome to Sexyloops.

With the pleasantries over :D; I thought I'd ask about your statement above, why do you think you can't use a pulling stroke with a fast action rod? I find I can use any stroke I like with any action of rod :???:

All the best, James.
We did indeed, James. Nice to see you on here! i should have put 'I' for the above statement :pirate: . I am of the same opinion as Paul. I find it much easier to use a pull through stroke with a rod that bends in the butt section so i can feel what's going on (i use a pull through stroke on the Sage X as this has quite a soft butt) as well as the HBX. I have always been a puller. I find pulling a bit awkward with tip action rods without a soft butt. Just personal preference i guess! I truly believe that i am throwing a javelin with a rod with a soft butt, well, that's what is going on in my mind when i make the stroke. :ninja:

Interesting stuff, Paul. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to find a rod that is what it says it is nowadays. When a rod used to say "5/6/7" my understanding was that the recommendation would be a #5 DT, #6 weight forward and a #7 shooting head. Would you say that was the accepted thing back in "tut" day?

All the best!

Nick

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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#13

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:03 pm

No to be honest shooting heads weren’t used on the reservoirs. There were a few guys who used them but certainly not enough to merit giving them a rod number :D We’re talking about three people. And to be honest I still think they are a load of crap.

For the imaginary sea-trout fisherman in Denmark or Sweden for example it makes a lot of sense. It’s a pretty boring sport and they have to find entertainment somewhere and discussing head lengths and diameter running lines gives them something to do.

You can go whole months there without even seeing a fish. Some anglers have never seen one. Lasse sees about 5 per year. So to have to discuss at night, instead of how I didn’t catch any fish, they play with their tackle.

:pirate:

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#14

Post by nicholasfmoore » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:48 pm

bartdezwaan wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:32 pm
I find this pulling/pushing a bit strange.
A short while ago someone told me I am not pulling.
I believe it’s all in the head. In my head I am mostly thinking about pulling the line with the rod tip.
How do you see if someone is pulling or pushing?

Cheers, Bart
I think Paul explained it the best with the concrete block!

In a pull through stroke, the elbow/hand leads, and the rod tip follows. Your hand also should be traveling downwards, with no (if any) elbow extension. That's what i think when i'm making a cast. In a push through stroke, the elbow travels outwards, and the hand doesn't go down, it goes out. :pirate:

My hand in my own stroke has a very shallow angle of attack, downwards. I imagine throwing a javelin. In fact, i imagine throwing the rod like it is a javelin! I also think a pull through stroke is way more efficient than a push through one.

Hope this helps?

All the best!

Nick

P.S.

No problem regarding the review! I do think it is a great rod.
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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#15

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:46 am

I'll tell you my own experiences with the pulling stroke. I too thought it was the most efficient, and it certainly produces some pretty loops especially with some sort of extended drift/layback. Many years ago I had a phone call from a competition caster in the UK who wanted a lesson to see if he could get a bit more of an edge. This was Jon Allen. I showed him this highly efficient pulling stoke, that I thought I was throwing 120' but was actually going 105'. At the end of this brilliant lesson, we had a small competition at Jon beat me with his original style - and hand's down, by a good 10' :D

I invited him back one week later and I spent all week practising his stroke. :D :D We became very good friends!

Cheers, Paul
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James9118
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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#16

Post by James9118 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:32 am

bartdezwaan wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:32 pm
I find this pulling/pushing a bit strange.
A short while ago someone told me I am not pulling.
I believe it’s all in the head. In my head I am mostly thinking about pulling the line with the rod tip.
How do you see if someone is pulling or pushing?

Cheers, Bart
Hi Bart - when you figure out what you're doing let me know as I'd like to copy you :D (Actually I'd like to borrow some of your trained pixies who clearly carry your line out for you :pirate: )

James

nicholasfmoore
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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#17

Post by nicholasfmoore » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:35 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:46 am
I'll tell you my own experiences with the pulling stroke. I too thought it was the most efficient, and it certainly produces some pretty loops especially with some sort of extended drift/layback. Many years ago I had a phone call from a competition caster in the UK who wanted a lesson to see if he could get a bit more of an edge. This was Jon Allen. I showed him this highly efficient pulling stoke, that I thought I was throwing 120' but was actually going 105'. At the end of this brilliant lesson, we had a small competition at Jon beat me with his original style - and hand's down, by a good 10' :D

I invited him back one week later and I spent all week practising his stroke. :D :D We became very good friends!

Cheers, Paul
Very interesting stuff, Paul! I do enjoy the loops that the pull through stroke makes. :pirate: That's very cool, is this the stroke you use now by the way?

All the best!

Nick

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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#18

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:42 pm

is this the stroke you use now by the way?
Sometimes. I don't really think about it any more in my own casting to be honest. I suppose for most casts I'm a puller. But I also use Thrust, particularly Torque Twist which is a sort of Thrust, which is interesting because it's also consider it a form a Pull-back. And of course for distance I'm 170/Stopless.

I do however teach it and I think its good to bring the Casting Stroke back into the body where you have more control over it. What I try to do in my teaching is to teach 'styles'. I think if a caster has three or four styles then he's in a better position than if he just has components. But of course both are important.

Incidentally I like the bottom leg of that loop. Does anyone know if Tomo is still involved with Hardy?

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#19

Post by nicholasfmoore » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:08 pm

It's a funny one isn't it, i used to think really hard about the casting movements, and then i relaxed, and everything came together :pirate: very interesting regarding the torque twist, i do this when i'm doing spey casting with a single handed rod, especially the single spey! I think you do too, but i can't remember?

I forgot to mention, this rod feels awesome with pull back! Over head and roll casting. I don't know about you, but i use pull back all the time with roll casting? I have a Zephrus 9' #6 as well, and i do like this for general fishing, it doesn't feel great with pull back though, that's the only thing in my opinion that i don't like about it. I think the Zephrus series works best with the line weight rated on the rod, the butt section is a bit stiff too but that's another topic :whistle:

It's a very nice rod, Paul. When you next come over to the UK i'll be sure to bring it to a BFCC event :cool:

That's great. Do you find you start off with your casting style and then show them others?

Thanks, Paul.

All the best

Nick

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Re: Thoughts on the Hardy HBX, good rod!

#20

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:50 am

No I don’t have a casting style named after me :p (I have a casting ‘style’ of course but that’s a separate issue). I would always teach ‘closed stance accuracy’ and ‘Rajeff-distance’ styles. I usually include ‘Oval Casting style’ (but not very deep) and, with a better caster, the ‘170/Stopless’ style. I particularly like working within the constraints of closed stance accuracy - casting foot forward, square shoulders, pulling from the shoulder. But if someone insists on using an open style distance stroke for casting at a fish 10ft in front of their rod tip then that’s up to them of course. When I play darts I don’t run up to the board like I’m throwing a javelin. But if I was throwing darts at a board 70ft away then I would use open stance.

That’s how I look upon it. I’m sure lots of people might disagree with that here on the Board. In fact I know they do because they teach differently. In fact sometimes I’ll teach differently but that’s usually my first approach.

Cheers, Paul
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