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Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:54 pm
by t.z.
Well written and very true ... but why does everybody and his grandma seems to conclude that fly lines either need to be made by Rio or SA? These products are useless as the label on the packaging is wrong. Wrong labelling is reason enough for any serious manufacturer to take this batch off the market and shelves.

I don't complain with the brewery when I bought a can of beer which says 0,4 liter of 5,5% beer and I find out that it was 0,2 liter of some none alcoholic shit. I try complaining at the shop where I bought it and most likely get a replacement. The shop most likely stops carrying that brand as too many customers complain. I´d never buy this brand again. Not in thousand years.

So it bis very simple. There are enough other options and there will be more companies making true to AFTMA lines as the market demands it. One does not have to buy from these stupid companies. Their pricing is way off the chart as well anyways.

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:59 pm
by Will
I must say it puzzles me why we have to have a standard in the first place.

Just tell us what the head weighs in grams, and how long it is, and then rod manufacturers can tell us what range of line weights they think work for their rods.

Another thing that puzzles me is why rod manufacturers think it’s OK to sell us rods with out any detailed instructions/guidelines as to how they expect it to be used. I think for the money we’re spending it’s not too much to expect a small leaflet with guidance notes as to what lines (the designer thinks) work. E.G. “for general purpose fishing then a short head at xxg, a medium head at xxg, and a long head at xxg; Spey casting etc. etc....”

It’s really not hard. If you can work out how a smart phone works, you can figure this out with some simple instructions.

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:24 pm
by Boisker
It’s a tricky one, i’m not sure the genie can be put back in the bottle now.
What would really help is if gram / grain weights were provided more easily... SA are one of the best and you can find it for each line on their website, that’s not the case for other line manufacturers, but is should be on all packaging as well.

The issue is not everyone wants to really take the time to understand line / rod / combo’s for different applications... I think it really only annoys people who get quite into the technical aspects of fly fishing, the vast majority of people I doubt even know they are fishing a line 2X the wight advertises, and probably care even less.

If you consider ‘technical’ or particular purpose lines... calling it a 6w probably works in terms of sale.... such as- Kelly Galloup’s streamer max long fly line: you can buy a 6/7 weight, 7/8 or 8/9, which correspond to 200, 250 or 300. The grain weight is on the box as well as the ‘line weight’ but I bet most people wouldn’t know which to purchase just off the grain weights.

Even after saying all of the above, and feeling that I can understand why lines have been marketed the way they have.... I still must agree with the FP..... it is bloody annoying :D

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:58 am
by Graeme H
It's a nice rant but there are a few extra factors not mentioned.

For example, when all the mass that we'd normally cast in a long-belly line is condensed into the first 30', we need a line that is about 2 line weights heavy on the AFFTM standard to "feel about right". So the titan line Lars mentions (stated as 2 line weights heavy) is about right if you buy the line that's labelled for your rod (as the blurb suggests). The mass of the head approximates 50' of DT line of the same rating.

My problem is the ones that are half a weight heavy and have a decent head length. That's no-man's-land! If it were a quarter weight heavy, I'd just live happily with the labelled line weight. If it were three quarters heavy, I'd buy the line below my rod's rating, just like I do for the Rio lines that are all about a line rating heavy. But half? That makes no sense to me (so I don't buy those lines.)

Not that it matters most of the time. At 30' of 6wt, another ~6' of line would weigh the same as 30' a 7wt. If I were that sensitive to 6' of line in my casts and could never adjust to a cast of 24' or 36', I'd be in trouble ... :)

Cheers,
Graeme

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:41 pm
by Paul Arden
Most lines are made by SA and RIO. SA are generally pretty good with the line rating system. The other manufacturers are Airflo, Northern Sports, Monic, Cortland and there are two in China.

Head weight only matters if you are casting the head :D

We need to start weighing the lines. Most manufacturers will be happy to get involved.

Cheers, Paul

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:02 pm
by Mangrove Cuckoo
Paul Arden wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:41 pm
Most lines are made by SA and RIO. SA are generally pretty good with the line rating system. The other manufacturers are barstool, Northern Sports, Monic, Cortland and there are two in China.
Barrio ?

Didn't SA start this whole over-weighting thing in the first place?

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:44 pm
by Paul Arden
Barrio are or were manufactured by NS (the old Shakespeare plant).

I think it started 30 years ago. Airflo we’re making lines 2-3 line weights heavier. Probably because the line material didn’t shoot. SA only recently made mid weight lines essentially because when Cortland users said they preferred casting Cortland lines over SA the only difference SA could find was that they were slightly over weighted.

With RIO it’s extremely difficult to find a line that conforms to standard. Occasionally they are exactly one line weight heavier. With SA quite a few of their lines are still bang on.

I use a DT4 on the HT4 from SA. Lines that are “heavy” I really don’t like on this rod. I’ve had Chinese lines that apart from being rough have been correctly rated.

Cheers, Paul

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:23 pm
by Lasse Karlsson
When did SA start with the GPX half weight (full weight reality) line? I got my first one like 16 years ago, and it had been on the market a while then...

And yeah, sloflo was the original heavy metal lines..

Cheers
Lasse

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:25 pm
by Lasse Karlsson
Oh, and most lines in Europe are made by someone else than SA and Rio 😉

Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:34 pm
by Paul Arden
Europe is rather a small market by comparison :D

I can’t remember where I was last night, how am I expected to remember when SA brought out the GPX?