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Knives

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MST
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:24 am

Knives

#1

Post by MST » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:31 am

Hi All
I have earlier brought up the topic of sharpening knives and have gotten a lot of good tips, which have served me well.
I am now in a new situation. I have 6-8 Sabatier kitchen knives, from 5 to 25 cm blades, that have been sharpended both by myself and the local butcher and has been working well.

I have now bought a couple of japanese kitchen knives (20-25 cm blades) and I have never experienced anything as sharp.
The ones I have are in the 100-200 Euro pricebracket, not the superknives costing 2000 Euro or more (Danish prices).

My question is; what is it that make it impossible (for me) to sharpen my old knives to the same level as the japanese ones (I have tried to keep an angle of 18-20 degrees on the cutting edge).
Is it the quality of steel that differ, is it my sharpening skills that needs honing ??

Any comments will be appreciated.

Morten

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Bowside
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:10 am

Knives

#2

Post by Bowside » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:46 pm

What are you using to sharpen
them. Steel or flat stone ?

Mr.T
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:55 pm

Knives

#3

Post by Mr.T » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:27 pm

I have many Japanese steel knives. All my Spyderco knives with seki city blades such as VG10 , AUS6 can be easily sharpen to its original sharpness using the Spyderco tri-angle sharpmaker tool. An excellent tool for sharpening all my other non Spyderco knives too. Even my 3 foot long machete and sternum axe. Cheers

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skeg
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:16 pm

Knives

#4

Post by skeg » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:59 pm

what are the bevels on those Japanese knives? Chisel?
sharpness is depending on the steel, also.

OkieBrad
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:19 am
Location: Oklahoma, US

Knives

#5

Post by OkieBrad » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:33 pm

When I sharpen my knives I keep three things in mind. What is the bevel angle? Do I need to create a new beveled edge? Have I removed enough metal?

First I figure out the angle of the bevel. Sadly the bevel angle will change between manufacture and even style of knife with the same manufacture. Most edges will run between 10 to 30 degrees. If you are not sure of the angle you can often contact the manufacture or try looking it up online.

If I have no clue what angle the bevel is, then I create a new angle. How I plan to use the knife will determine what angle I will create the bevel. If I want to shave I will create a bevel close to 10 degrees. This will make a very sharp blade but it will not stay sharp for very long. If my plans are to chop bones or trees you would create a bevel angle closer to 30 degrees. This edge will last a long time but I may have a hard time cutting a steak. If you are sharpening your old kitchen knives correctly you may find a larger bevel angle is keeping you from getting the edge you desire.

I create my bevel angles using a diamond sharpener. The old stones are not much harder than the new steels so to grind down the angle you have to work your ass off. When creating a new bevel, I pull the blade away from the sharp edge. My goal is to create a burr on the entire edge. This will tell me when I have removed enough steel. I also use an angle guide. Very difficult to keep a constant angle while moving the knife. Do this on both sides of the knife if it is a wedge edged blade.

To remove the burr I simply switch to a finer stone and reverse the grinding/polishing direction of the blade or move the sharp edge in the direction of the stone. Keep the same angle and do this on both sides till I have the desired sharpness or until I have removed enough metal that I can no longer see a bright spot on the very edge of the blade when I hold it in the light.

MST
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:24 am

Knives

#6

Post by MST » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:50 pm

Thank you for your replies.
I have been using stones of varying coarsnesess, but have never gotten around to get the Arkansas variety.
What I find hard to understand is why I can't get a seriously sharp edge, even if for a short time, when doing the sharpening myself.
My approach may lack in fully understanding the full process. But I will keep searching.

Best regards
Morten

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skeg
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:16 pm

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#7

Post by skeg » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:04 pm

I think it's just requires more patience- time, than one would think.
In my opinion sharpening is a time-consuming process...:-)
that's why I like convex edges, because I can maintain those a bit easier.

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Bowside
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:10 am

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#8

Post by Bowside » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:35 pm

Just don't ever let your edge get so blunt you need to re-hone the blade. Little and very often with a good steel.

Jeroen
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:59 am

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#9

Post by Jeroen » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:31 am

I had a full set of Sabatiers and was never happy with them. I found them too thick and found it very hard to keep a good edge on them, as is the case with many mass produced big name kitchen knives. I think that it is an outrage that when you buy a knife like Sabatier or Zwillingen, it actually isn't sharp out of the box.
The best value for money kitchen knives on the market today are IMO the Windmühlenmesser(wind mill knives), made in Germany. The edge on the knives is incredible, but not so incredible if you see how the final sharpening is done. These knives run circles around any of the big and posh names out there, at a fraction of the price.

MST
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:24 am

Knives

#10

Post by MST » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:40 am

Hi Jeroen
I'm sorry that I have missed your reply. I can only agree with your comments with the socalled brilliant knives from the socalled big guys in the business. They leaves a lot to be desired.
I live 40 km from Germany and will follow-up on the brand you mentioned, next time I have to buy beer.

Thank you.
Morten
PS. I will say for the big Sabatier knives, they make a clean cut. I had my arm in a cast for 5 weeks after trying to slice a Parma ham :)

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