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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

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Bernd Ziesche
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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#1

Post by Bernd Ziesche »

Hi Scotty,
nice FP!
Many demonstrations of tailing loops in exam situations were not caused by one single cause as far as I saw them. Based on the exam requirements you may call that cheating, I won't. Pretty often it was a lift of the rod in the last part of the stop in order to make the tip rise significally. Such way to cause a significant tailing loop I hardly ever met in my lessons.
Instead I saw small to medium sized waves in the fly-leg. Mostly it was several causes at the same time!
If I wanted to demonstrate a tail to the student I showed these waves (similar to what he/she) did. No need to make a demo of a major royal fuck-up of it. Don't think any student would feel good about that! Using a still on the grass to show the wave may give additional (slowed) help to demo. Usually I have no need for it. Most students understand and see the waves immediately when casting them.
Personally I find the task in exms pretty useful. BUT I would change the demo from a tailing loop into just smaller - medium waves. That would force candidates much less to cheat. :p :cool:
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Bernd
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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#2

Post by Paul Arden »

I don't mind it. It's a start anyway. It would be nice to see tracking faults explained as tailing loops in a horizontal plane (vertical loop) etc etc. But really there are more important teaching issues such as how to use your body which is of course non halal :p
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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#3

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Hi Paul

Tracking mistake is a wave in the line?

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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#4

Post by Bernd Ziesche »

Hi Paul, proper tracking was (many times) defined (on SL) as straight tip path seen from the bird's view. Personally I prefer to understand it as tip path looking down the casting plane. The dip in tip path (and the wave in the fly-leg) I'd observe from a side view. Don't think I got your point. Cheers B
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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#5

Post by Paul Arden »

Yes it's a horizontal wave which is why it turns over left or right of course.
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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#6

Post by Paul Arden »

My point is this, the IFFF has really grabbed on the tailing loop fault and dissected it with many causes - no doubt we here may be responsible in part for this :p But it's just one particular type of wave in the fly line and a particular fault. Why not really go into fault diagnosis with other faults in the same way? Why pick on tailing loops?!

My example of a tracking error is a wave similar to a tail but in the horizontal plane - that's why the end of the line hooks left or right. But my biggest issue, is that the root cause is not the tip path, it is what is going on in the caster's head. Understanding this allows you to rectify the fault. The first question is, is the tailing loop caused by an intentional or an unintentional action? For example believing that one has to cast using a fixed casting arc can lead to tailing loops, that's an easy fix but only if you understand the root cause. So to really instruct, you need to understand what is going on in the head of the caster that is causing the tailing loop in the first place.

The IFFF examining Board doesn't want to do this - definition of Creep case in point. Were they to do this and open the door to instruction dealing with real people, then that would make for a much more interesting exam, and "people instructors".

I'll give you an example of a problem I had today. I had a client who, like almost everyone when they first learn to shoot line, slipped line during the casting stroke. Not just once, but every damn time. I tried many things, even to the extent where I asked him to hold the line hand in front of his bloody face, make a PUALD and go STOP, STOP, RELEASE out loud. Even with the line hand in front of his face (obviously I tried the trigger finger index finger release on the rod grip first, which didn't work :p ) - anyway even with the line hand in front of his face, going STOP, STOP, RELEASE he still released at the beginning of his forward Casting Stroke - and every bloody time. He simply could not stop himself even while looking at the hand in front of his face!

How is this even possible?!! The solution that I came up with was to teach him the Double Haul! You cannot release line when you are concentrating on pulling it. This worked, was very much a roundabout way, took a long time and this guy - who is a delightful chap by the way - is going to have to practise everything very hard before he learns to fly cast well (although I'm quite sure that he will make an excellent caster after practise).

And this to me is the problem with all of these examinations. There is some crazy notion out there that we don't teach form, only mechanics. Reading a book would be enough then! And it's because there is a wealth of information out there, it is the how to teach form, how to investigate what is the root cause (conscious/subconscious) and how to deal with it is really what instruction is about IMO.

Quite a fascinating two days actually. The first knot I taught him was the Bimini Twist and the first thing we did was to tie a Vince Popper!

Anyway I think my point in all of this is that the 6 step should really be an 8 step method and step 4 should be to establish whether the root cause of the problem is conscious or subconscious driven. Steps 4 and 5 are severely lacking in all our exams.

Cheers, Paul
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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#7

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Paul Arden wrote:Yes it's a horizontal wave which is why it turns over left or right of course.
Interesting take on it, are you sure about that?

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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#8

Post by WJC »

anyway even with the line hand in front of his face, going STOP, STOP, RELEASE he still released at the beginning of his forward Casting Stroke - and every bloody time. He simply could not stop himself even while looking at the hand in front of his face!
I sympathise with both you and your client, Paul.

A vivid memory from age 8, is standing beside a river in Idaho during a cross country camping trip with a Penn pre-level wind, leather strap reel loaded with 52 lb dacron. My dad had been bragging to his buddy, a forest ranger out there, how well I could cast and the guy looked at the setup in shock. So he gave me a spincast reel with a pushbutton and a tiny little lure saying my rig wouldn't work. He told me how easy it was to cast, just push the button and let go to release the line. I had never seen one of them nor ever used a spinning reel, which had not really caught on big time yet for the salt. The drags sucked.

My first cast went straight up into the air; my second, I used a sidearm cast and missed the river entirely . I was releasing the way I'd been doing with 3 oz sinkers on my rod from boats and piers all around Miami and the Keys. I was so embarassed I quit fishing until we hit the salt water in San Diego, where I was completely at home on Crystal Pier with my 3 oz sinkers and conventional tackle.

Muscle memory is a tough thing to overcome - especially when you are stressed because someone is watching you intently.

Cheers,
Jim
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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#9

Post by Paul Arden »

Yep it certainly is. However in his case he had no muscle memory. It's actually very common that someone slips line too early when they first learn to shoot. But it usually only lasts a short time :)
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Tailing Loops in exams (Scott's FP 21012016)

#10

Post by Graeme H »

(Not directly related to the topic, but is there some way for me to read the original FP? Are they stored somewhere? I had a "man look" but could not find a link to old FP content.)

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Graeme
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