Cool.
Awareness... getting casters thinking about it, ask them how they pick line up off the water. Have them describe their process - what it is that they (think...) do to make a nice lift. That can be eye opening.
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Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
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easterncaster
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easterncaster
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Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
Also, adding to Joan's method...
The angle that the line takes as it's lifted off the water, right before it is released, is the angle for the Back cast - if you want a paper-clip. I ask casters to observe the solid line, fly line's angle, and extrapolate it as an architect or engineer's drawing: dash, dash, dash. That is the path for their Back cast.
The angle that the line takes as it's lifted off the water, right before it is released, is the angle for the Back cast - if you want a paper-clip. I ask casters to observe the solid line, fly line's angle, and extrapolate it as an architect or engineer's drawing: dash, dash, dash. That is the path for their Back cast.
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Michal Duzynski
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Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
Hi Greame
Paul mention casting between the walls.
I use to put a student next to the tree line, or between trees, when they realize that there is no space for a side swing of the rod, and there is no space for loop to travel they start thinking and asking them" this is the only spot to deliver the fly from- what so i do?" and the rod tip goes vertical, loop travels along the tree line and they are happy.
Swinging in open field- they might not even realize what they doing wrong even if you tell them. The loop goes forward, who cares how it look on the back.
Once they have obstractions and the only way to cast is to make sure that the FC is alainned with BC, regardles the plain, they start to think.
In open field tell them to cast horizontal loops 5feet above the ground, you will see how fast they will get rid of the swinging oval motion.
After that its all up to them, to listen, to practice and to memorise what they've learned.
Cheers
Mike
Paul mention casting between the walls.
I use to put a student next to the tree line, or between trees, when they realize that there is no space for a side swing of the rod, and there is no space for loop to travel they start thinking and asking them" this is the only spot to deliver the fly from- what so i do?" and the rod tip goes vertical, loop travels along the tree line and they are happy.
Swinging in open field- they might not even realize what they doing wrong even if you tell them. The loop goes forward, who cares how it look on the back.
Once they have obstractions and the only way to cast is to make sure that the FC is alainned with BC, regardles the plain, they start to think.
In open field tell them to cast horizontal loops 5feet above the ground, you will see how fast they will get rid of the swinging oval motion.
After that its all up to them, to listen, to practice and to memorise what they've learned.
Cheers
Mike
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Michal Duzynski
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Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
Just quickly add
Back to TRIANGLE METHOD- simple and brilliant
Back to TRIANGLE METHOD- simple and brilliant
Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
G'day Mike,Michal Duzynski wrote:Swinging in open field- they might not even realize what they doing wrong even if you tell them. The loop goes forward, who cares how it look on the back.
Oh, they nearly always know they are doing it. Some of them even started doing it deliberately very early on in their casting. Their questions revolve around how to break their habit ...
Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI
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Paul Arden
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Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
Hi Craig,
yes I use something similar that was handed down to me somewhere along the line that must have come from Joan. However I don't think it should be called loading move, because it's the lift and not part of the Casting Stroke. If you include the lift in the casting stroke then you end up with some pretty large casting arcs. So I would argue that the entire casting stroke is the power snap only. The handy thing about this way is that you get to keep the 5 Essentials.
If anything it's a pre-loading move
I don't know if the observation came from Haysie, but he talks in detail about Joan when discussing the PUALD and he makes a wonderful observation to watch the point where the fly line lifts off the water and create an even waterfall along the line with the lift, when you get to the nail knot (or fly) make the power snap.
Cheers, Paul
yes I use something similar that was handed down to me somewhere along the line that must have come from Joan. However I don't think it should be called loading move, because it's the lift and not part of the Casting Stroke. If you include the lift in the casting stroke then you end up with some pretty large casting arcs. So I would argue that the entire casting stroke is the power snap only. The handy thing about this way is that you get to keep the 5 Essentials.
If anything it's a pre-loading move
I don't know if the observation came from Haysie, but he talks in detail about Joan when discussing the PUALD and he makes a wonderful observation to watch the point where the fly line lifts off the water and create an even waterfall along the line with the lift, when you get to the nail knot (or fly) make the power snap.
Cheers, Paul
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Michal Duzynski
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Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
Hi Greame
I dont think you can, unless they will be in difficult casting situation and then they will realize its time for help.
If your students casts from the boat, or a beach, where they have no obstacles they will keep doing it.
Casting constantly BELGIUM CAST its not a casting fault, and if they happy with it, they will keep doing it.
To teach somebody something has to go both ways- you as a teacher, and them as people who wants to learn. If they dont have an issue with a side swing ( broken tip, or hooking their mate in the face) they will not learn, and what ever you do you want change it. You have to find the way to proove it to them that what you want to tell them is more efficient, and has more benefits in their fishing situations ( better distance, more control over the rod and loop).
Try with 6 step method
Mike
I dont think you can, unless they will be in difficult casting situation and then they will realize its time for help.
If your students casts from the boat, or a beach, where they have no obstacles they will keep doing it.
Casting constantly BELGIUM CAST its not a casting fault, and if they happy with it, they will keep doing it.
To teach somebody something has to go both ways- you as a teacher, and them as people who wants to learn. If they dont have an issue with a side swing ( broken tip, or hooking their mate in the face) they will not learn, and what ever you do you want change it. You have to find the way to proove it to them that what you want to tell them is more efficient, and has more benefits in their fishing situations ( better distance, more control over the rod and loop).
Try with 6 step method
Mike
Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
Mike,
I think you're missing the point. They usually already know it's a fault and want to change. If they don't know it's a fault, it's pretty easy to explain why it is and the benefits of changing. There is normally no resistance to change.
They don't know how to bring about the change in style and I'm after drills and teaching techniques that will help them.
Cheers,
Graeme
(I believe it's a question on the MCI examination too, so anyone searching the forum should (hopefully) find something useful in this thread.)
I think you're missing the point. They usually already know it's a fault and want to change. If they don't know it's a fault, it's pretty easy to explain why it is and the benefits of changing. There is normally no resistance to change.
They don't know how to bring about the change in style and I'm after drills and teaching techniques that will help them.
Cheers,
Graeme
(I believe it's a question on the MCI examination too, so anyone searching the forum should (hopefully) find something useful in this thread.)
FFi CCI
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Paul Arden
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Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
Hi gents,
Because it's so engrained I believe you have to go right back to scratch. Of course no one wants to do this, so the best way is to close the stance and teach accuracy to targets. Then take this stroke, which will be new for them, and lengthen it to make it longer. For an 80ft shot, which would be a long cast to a fish, there is no need to open up the stance.
Only then would I open up the stance. Everything else is a headache. They get it right for a few casts and then go back to their old style. All you end up doing is repeating yourself - "track the rod straight" "remember your targets" etc etc and there is only so many ways to say the same thing
As far as I'm concerned making accurate, quick shots that land straight, to say 80ft with one or no false casting really is a big changer in the salt. Add speed and trajectory for dealing with the wind as well as complete confidence and with backhanded shots and you're going to make a huge advance in their SW fly fishing.
I think almost all the guys I've been teaching recently come from SW backgrounds and they all have (had) this problem. I throw shoes over the side of the boat to see how accurate they really are. The other big game changer is change of angle shots. Aerialised Soey Casts is something every advanced SW angler should learn and you really get their attention here because they immediately see the value.
If on the other hand they've come for a distance lesson and it's a one-off affair then the way to go is splitting back from forward casts but if they're not hitting shoes with one or no false casts to 80ft then they still really need to learn this first!
Cheers,
Paul (who is sitting in the Condom with an electric storm overhead)
Because it's so engrained I believe you have to go right back to scratch. Of course no one wants to do this, so the best way is to close the stance and teach accuracy to targets. Then take this stroke, which will be new for them, and lengthen it to make it longer. For an 80ft shot, which would be a long cast to a fish, there is no need to open up the stance.
Only then would I open up the stance. Everything else is a headache. They get it right for a few casts and then go back to their old style. All you end up doing is repeating yourself - "track the rod straight" "remember your targets" etc etc and there is only so many ways to say the same thing
As far as I'm concerned making accurate, quick shots that land straight, to say 80ft with one or no false casting really is a big changer in the salt. Add speed and trajectory for dealing with the wind as well as complete confidence and with backhanded shots and you're going to make a huge advance in their SW fly fishing.
I think almost all the guys I've been teaching recently come from SW backgrounds and they all have (had) this problem. I throw shoes over the side of the boat to see how accurate they really are. The other big game changer is change of angle shots. Aerialised Soey Casts is something every advanced SW angler should learn and you really get their attention here because they immediately see the value.
If on the other hand they've come for a distance lesson and it's a one-off affair then the way to go is splitting back from forward casts but if they're not hitting shoes with one or no false casts to 80ft then they still really need to learn this first!
Cheers,
Paul (who is sitting in the Condom with an electric storm overhead)
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Paul Arden
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Rectify a horizontal Backcast Loop
An excellent plan. I always ask them to repeat the lesson as well. That's always fascinating and can change what/how you teach!Have them describe their process - what it is that they (think...) do to make a nice lift. That can be eye opening.
Cheers, Paul