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Changing student's style

Moderators: Paul Arden, Bernd Ziesche, Lasse Karlsson

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Bernd Ziesche
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Changing student's style

#1

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:52 am

Hi everyone,
let's imagine an average student wanting his/her casting skills to be improved in general as well as one or two serious problems being healed.
Would you change the student's style during a lesson or not?
If yes, when and why?
If not, why not?
Thanks
Bernd
p.s.: Thanks Paul, for finally bringing up the TEACHING section, I appreciate!
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Morsie
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Changing student's style

#2

Post by Morsie » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:50 am

Really interesting question. I lead off all my full day classes with a discussion and demonstration of styles. Its a revelation to many students.
So YES, particularly when I can see that for many reasons a style just isn't working for them. Sometimes to completely change someones style allows them to relearn fly casting from scratch, like doing it left handed - where as if you continued as an instructor to try and fix an old and ingrained style that's full of faults you just get no where, the moment you turn your back its straight back to what didn't work before. Last year I had an older guy in a class who cast elbow out but had his hand high in the air.As a complete opposite motion I showed him Lefty's style and the use of body in the cast. It was a revelation for him and we then applied what he learned fro Lefty's style to his old style and we managed to fix it. I had an old boy in his 80's who hadn't been able to fish for 10 years because of his shoulders, i showed him lefty's style and his world changed, within half an hour he was double hauling and hitting 50 feet easily which for a small stream fisher mean a lot. I change style for guys who want to go barramundi fishing but who have only ever thrown trout flies. I want people to learn all styles because they all have their applications, they are all just different ways of putting together the same principles and i want them to understand that.

Morsie

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Lasse Karlsson
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Changing student's style

#3

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:16 pm

Morsie wrote:I want people to learn all styles because they all have their applications, they are all just different ways of putting together the same principles and i want them to understand that.

Morsie

Completly agree :cool:

In my style demo's I emphasise that the majority of styles out there are born form a specific kind of fishing in a specific enviroment and that there are benefits from learning to throw in different styles that crosses over into other kinds of fishing.

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Lasse
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Changing student's style

#4

Post by guest » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:14 pm

Is it possible to make a radical change in a single lesson that sticks,or is it student dependent?

I have had my casting style rebuilt but had to stop fishing for a while and just practice. Otherwise, I reverted to my old built in processes as a result of pressure or distraction.

regards

Vince
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Lasse Karlsson
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Changing student's style

#5

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:40 pm

Hi Vince

In my experience, it's not possible.. A lesson is just the prelude to practicing on your own. Without practice very few get better and I think that goes for anything someone wants to be better at :)

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Lasse
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Changing student's style

#6

Post by guest » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:20 am

Hi Lasse

Going back to Bernds original question

Maybe I was seriously crap but it took a lot of work to change what I was doing and as a service provider, you have to sell the benefits. If you turn around and say this will take 10 lessons and cost £xxx, many would give up before they started. How do you pitch this at the trainee without scaring them to death?

regards

Vince
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Bernd Ziesche
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Changing student's style

#7

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:24 pm

VGB wrote:Is it possible to make a radical change in a single lesson that sticks,or is it student dependent?
Lasse Karlsson wrote: In my experience, it's not possible.. A lesson is just the prelude to practicing on your own. Without practice very few get better
Hi Lasse,
doesn't that mean it IS possible, if "only" you can motivate/inspire your student to really start training fly casting after the lesson and to work with the tools you have given to him during the lesson?
For me this is maybe the biggest goal to make in a lesson - from the teacher's perspective. Otherwise I meet again and just want to cry. :cool: (because my lesson wasn't successfully in long terms)

From my experience it is possible to even change a style of someone having used his style for quite a while within a lesson. Sure, some need longer, some can adapt faster. But within a day lesson a lot is possible to do usually.
Afterwards I fully agree: No further regularly training = step back to the morning BEFORE the lesson started.

How often do you change style for a student, Lasse?
Greets
Bernd
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Lasse Karlsson
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Changing student's style

#8

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:39 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:
VGB wrote:Is it possible to make a radical change in a single lesson that sticks,or is it student dependent?
Lasse Karlsson wrote: In my experience, it's not possible.. A lesson is just the prelude to practicing on your own. Without practice very few get better
Hi Lasse,
doesn't that mean it IS possible, if "only" you can motivate/inspire your student to really start training fly casting after the lesson and to work with the tools you have given to him during the lesson?
For me this is maybe the biggest goal to make in a lesson - from the teacher's perspective. Otherwise I meet again and just want to cry. :cool: (because my lesson wasn't successfully in long terms)
Hi Bernd

That was sort of the point I was making, without practice it doesn't matter how much one improves in a lesson, if they do not practice afterwards. And Vince's question as I read it is exactly that, if one can get a long lasting succes in just one lesson and no further work. I can't even think of any kind of movement related activities that has that, instant long lasting improvement :)
From my experience it is possible to even change a style of someone having used his style for quite a while within a lesson. Sure, some need longer, some can adapt faster. But within a day lesson a lot is possible to do usually.
Afterwards I fully agree: No further regularly training = step back to the morning BEFORE the lesson started.

How often do you change style for a student, Lasse?
Greets
Bernd
That's the same point :)

And to your question, no precise answer, it depends on the student, and the need.

Cheers
Lasse
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Lasse Karlsson
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Changing student's style

#9

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:52 pm

VGB wrote:Hi Lasse

Going back to Bernds original question

Maybe I was seriously crap but it took a lot of work to change what I was doing and as a service provider, you have to sell the benefits. If you turn around and say this will take 10 lessons and cost £xxx, many would give up before they started. How do you pitch this at the trainee without scaring them to death?

regards

Vince
Hi Vince

How did your instructor sell the benefits to you? It must have worked since you tok the time to actually do the practice :)

I don't turn around a say it will take 10 lessons and a heap of money. I do not like to lie to people :)
I tell the truth, that if they want the improvements to stick, they have to go practice when they are home. There is no such thing as a free lunch. I try to get them to see the point of improving, how it will make their fishing a better experience. Just because I know it has done so for me. I have a bag full of horror stories from my own life about being a crap caster and throwing money out the window on good fishing because of it amongst other things :whistle:


Cheers
Lasse
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Changing student's style

#10

Post by guest » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:59 pm

To be honest Lasse, I was pre-sold. There were too many missed opportunities and frustration. Plus it was hampering my rod building and my shoulder was starting to give out. I have been fortunate that sport has always been easy for me, except for fly casting :blush: .
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