Quick opinion on rod choice and beginners...

[Geenomad]

A rod doesn't change it's stiffness of course, but changing the line has an impact on the bending profile during the cast and thus the resistance profile the caster FEELS during the cast. What feels best to the caster is individual, while supporting a beginner's learning process by offering him some rod bend while just casting a short line length is smart in regard of the fastest learning process in my experience.

Hi Bernd
I am currently reading about how we feel what we feel when making controlled movements and how we learn and remember the necessary movements - get control, develop sensorimotor patterns and memories. I am a long way from finished but what you say seems well aligned with what I have been reading. Feeling (sensing) and moving are two parts of a single whole process and they are inseparable. If anyone doubts this close yours eyes and move any part of your body without being aware of the movement.

Cheers
Mark

[Lasse Karlsson]

There is no such beast as a beginners rod action,

There is, mate, there is:

Anyway I’ll just produce a 7WT HT Instructor. I’ve ordered the prototypes. The rod will annihilate the test.

As usual, Paul is wrong.

Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

I'm always amazed by how little rod bend different lines actually give on the same rod.
Several grams and the same profile and length, and ots hard to see with the naked eye and slow motion footage heavier line retains more momentum, and gives more feedback at the end of the cast...

Cheers
Lasse

[Bernd Ziesche]

I'm always amazed by how little rod bend different lines actually give on the same rod.
Several grams and the same profile and length, and ots hard to see with the naked eye and slow motion footage

I do remember your fine vids about this! Also I'll never forget when (long ago) I changed Bart de Zwan's pretty stiff stick into a much softer one I had with me. He then was still carrying the same impressive length of line within exatly the same size of arc. Clearly no slight change in his size of arc - very opposite to what I was expecting him to do at that time.
So I agree and it's probably not much of a change in the rod bending profile.

heavier line retains more momentum, and gives more feedback at the end of the cast...

With this I don't agree (which doesn't mean I totally disagree either). In regard of FEEL in fly casting the resistance DURING acceleration has huge (biggest) impact in my experience. One line weight up comes with significant more friction/air resistance (due to more surface) changing the feel.
Some years ago I came over this for a first time when comparing different density floating lines. The difference in FEEL was (and still is) HUGE compared to the just slight differences in density. If you look for example on RIOs grain numbers (and how they increase) for one line profile (and one rod recommendation) when increasing density that matches with my experience here. Since then I ran a lot of tests about feel in casting and to me this is a big part to keep in mind.

Think of this: How much rod bend do you have at the end of the cast? Let's say none. So how much different feedback can you feel? In my experience much less as it was during acceleration.
Regards
Bernd

[Geenomad]

I suspect agreement might depend on what Lasse means by the "end of the cast".

Cheers
Mark

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Mark,
I am pretty sure Lasse meant exactly the end of the cast by "the end of the cast". Usually he is pretty straight to the point.
And I agree in that the higher momentum offers a (slightly) increased feel for better line tension indeed at the end of the cast. Besides that I often heard people claiming things like: "With that line the rod doesn't load really. I don't feel comfortable with this combination." That in my experience is a very typical impression based on the resistance profile during acceleration. There is a relationship between how much resistance comes by the rod itself and how much comes by the line being accelerated at the same time. In my experience most beginners feel little better when the relationship doesn't go too much to the side of the rod (which happens easily since they cast short lines first).
Regards
Bernd

[Kevin P]

Hello all - I bought a GR70 after a lesson with an isntructor since it was the easiest rod to cast that I ever tried, and it is what that particular instructor finds easiest to cast for beginners (I'm not a beginner, though no expert caster either). This instructor had a Rio Grand along and it is (I think) too heavy for this rod. The 6-weight GR70 casts an AFTM-true WF6 just fine, and excels with a DT5. So there should be no reason for an inexperienced caster to change that rod. Kevin

[t.z.]

Beginners tend to like slightly overland rods, so get a real good 4 or 5 wt, put a line higher on it. Wise up after 8 month and get the proper line. Much more cost efficient then buying a so called beginner rod.

I direct terms - get a HT4, stick a Thunderbolt 5wt on it and wait for Paul coming up with a fitting line

[Lasse Karlsson]

Beginners tend to like slightly overland rods, so get a real good 4 or 5 wt, put a line higher on it. Wise up after 8 month and get the proper line. Much more cost efficient then buying a so called beginner rod.

I direct terms - get a HT4, stick a Thunderbolt 5wt on it and wait for Paul coming up with a fitting line

I love when people tell me I'm a beginners beginner


https://vimeo.com/35066178

cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Mark,
I am pretty sure Lasse meant exactly the end of the cast by "the end of the cast". Usually he is pretty straight to the point.
And I agree in that the higher momentum offers a (slightly) increased feel for better line tension indeed at the end of the cast. Besides that I often heard people claiming things like: "With that line the rod doesn't load really. I don't feel comfortable with this combination." That in my experience is a very typical impression based on the resistance profile during acceleration. There is a relationship between how much resistance comes by the rod itself and how much comes by the line being accelerated at the same time. In my experience most beginners feel little better when the relationship doesn't go too much to the side of the rod (which happens easily since they cast short lines first).
Regards
Bernd

Yup, when I say end of the cast, I mean end of the cast.

What do we feel when we cast? Usually when I ask that question I get funny answers like happiness and warm and fuzzy etc. could you guys please tell me what it is you FEEL when you cast? Prefereably backed up by footage, I find it damn hard to feel the resistance of the line in the middle of my stroke when I'm appliying several kg's of force to move the damn thing, and several clips show, that what I thought was a straigtish line I was bending my rod against well into the cork, was in fact a flying spaghetti The old squeeze a peeble in the hand springs to mind

Oh, best to make some casts with the eyes closed, and really feel for what it is we feel

Cheers
Lasse