Examination feedback

[Paul Arden]

Are you sure candidates can ask for the complete exam, Lasse?

[Gmstuart1]

Are you sure candidates can ask for the complete exam, Lasse?

I'm not even sure they should have to ask.....maybe they just go on to the teaching part (For the MCI maybe I agree since it takes so long). In the CI the teaching tasks really don't take that much time away from an examiner.

-Greg

[Paul Arden]

I went through this with Lasse via WhatsApp and no in the MCI exam if you fail the performance part of the exam you can't go on to see how you fare in the teaching section. Instead they offer to turn the remaining time into a workshop.

I really think you should be given the whole test and without any teaching. I mean that's what you pay for. Whole test, no prompting, write down everything said and everything missed. Job done.

That's how they do it at AAPGAI under the tutelage of examiners' examiners and while there is a whole bunch of things wrong with that association at least they have this right.

Cheers, Paul

[easterncaster]

So the CI exam's Performance section is to be given in it's entirety - not stopped once the candidate has surpassed the threshold of Bs and Fs?

[Paul Arden]

I think that already happens and is a good thing Craig. Then the candidate who has paid his test knows how he stacks up against the whole test and not just the first few questions. In fact I think that in the CCI they can already have the whole test. I just think an MCI candidate who has paid for the whole test should have the option to run through the teaching part even though he’s failed the performance part. This allows him to get marked to see where he stands so he can be FULLY prepared next time.

Just imagine the scenario where an MCI candidate fails the first time on performance. Test is stopped. Next time he passes performance but fails on teaching. Maybe he didn’t know what to expect. Third time he passes. Now if the reason for him taking three tests is because he wasn’t given the full test that he paid for first time around then I think he has a valid grevience.

Another thing that I was thinking about is that copies of post test communication. Email advice on the test and how to proceed should also go to the exam committee. Because this follow up advice is as important as the exam itself. In fact it needs some work

Cheers, Paul

[easterncaster]

Re CI exam: Well that did not happen here this summer. Exams were stopped once the candidate(s) hit the threshold of Bs and Fs.

As well, Observers were allowed to speak to candidates during the exams. Observers have ears-n-eyes, NO mouths! < that was the case pre-EDP, and should be same now.

[Paul Arden]

Lots of inconsistency here. I know one failed candidate who got lots of excellent constructive feedback and another who hasn’t got any. Not yet anyway. If the test paper isn’t used for feedback - which I think it should - then there should be a standard form, a copy of which goes to the candidate and another to head office.

While turning an exam into a workshop may benefit the candidate at the time I think there are times when a full and compete examination will benefit him more in the long run. Certainly he has paid for an exam and not a casting workshop.

Think of it like an MOT test (car roadworthy test). They don’t stop after two fails and ask you to fix the lights and bald tyres before coming back do another test when they fail you on something else.

I know that fails can take longer than passes. But the main reason for that is examiners probing for missing explanations. That is a form of prompting. If that was cut out completely - which is how exams should be run - then that would speed the test up considerably. He or she either said it or didn’t say it. Mark it down and move on.

At the end of the exam you have a complete exam paper that can be handed to the candidate via smartphone and sent to head office to make sure that exams are consistent and that examiners are doing their job to the same standard. If both or all three examiners fill out separate exam papers then this is a form of testing individual examiners for the same test. Excellent information for exam consistency.

Cheers, Paul

[Morsie]

If you want lots of feedback contact your examiners and ask them. Most notes I take are short hand and consist of diagrams of loop shapes and layouts. Any exam I'm involved with, whether successful or not, involves a debrief and sometimes those go on for an hour or more if the candidate is willing. An examiner I know recently copped a gobful after not passing someone and then trying to give them advise. He was called grossly insensitive.

When someone is clearly a long way from ready and its 33° and 100% humidity no one wants to stay out there. When its blatantly obvious that someone is not ready there's no obligation to turn it into a workshop when there's a queue of candidates waiting to be tested. Their obligation is to be ready.

There's also often a huge difference between the candidates story of their test and the examiners. I got a long communication recently from someone who was not ready and they were very critical of the examiners and the process. I knew both sides of the test, and the examiners response when asked was so completely different to what I'd heard from the candidate ie. "the worst prepared candidate they'd ever encountered".

Sometimes you need the wisdom of Solomon and a degree in psychology. But MOST of the time we get it right and the times its wrong are getting fewer and fewer.

[Paul Arden]

Hi Morsie,

Wouldn’t it be a good idea for examiners to be taught how to make clear concise notes on the exam sheet that could then be passed on to the candidate?

Like you, I know when I was examining even I struggled to read my notes and they may as well have been in another language however with only a little training and practise I’m sure that even I would be able to fill out a test form in such a way that the exam paper could be given to he candidate.

As it stands now there is not sufficient room on the paper to effectively do this without writing in the margins and on the back of the paper but it would be a great move forward I think.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

I see several benefits to this:

1) the candidate gets a complete record of his assessment - in fact since all the examiners should take notes then he gets several copies.

2) the candidate’s mentor gets a clear picture of the test and what needs to be done. Ie not second hand information but a real test result.

3) the examination committee gets a complete and full record of the test which enables test improvements and also allows them to check how well examiners are doing individually.

5) since everything is on the test paper, after the debriefing, job is done! No need to answer emails about how to improve and what went wrong. Apart from which I don’t know about you, but if I was doing half a dozen tests then two weeks later I don’t think I would have a great record of each test in my head.

Cheers, Paul