Correcting tailing loops

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Thank you all for some great feedback!

My lessons continue this upcoming week so I'll see if I can incorporate some of these ideas.

I do have a follow-up question though...

In the context of my original question which is specifically about casting with heavy 12wt equipment, would incorporating the "micro-layback" technique still be valid? Or is it better suited for much lighter rods/lines?

One common trait that I have been observing is actually too much unintentional "layback" due to the weight of the systems. That seems to induce early wrist rotation in the delivery cast without waiting for some translation first.

So I have been trying to get the students away from the thumb on top grip while stopping the bc earlier for a higher bc trajectory, and then adding some good old fashion drift to get them to have longer, smoother strokes on the delivery. Bracing the rod butt under the forearm during the bc seems to accomplish most of that, in addition to assisting the casters of smaller stature.

[Paul Arden]

Hi Gary,

How are the tailing loops occurring? While making a PUALD or while extending to distance? Is there a tailing loop problem when carrying 2m of flyline outside the tip? I’m guessing not. So I would work from there gradually increasing line until tails appear. I would expect the student to then be able to identify the problem and tell you his solution.

I can’t remeber what I wrote last time but if I didn’t suggest asking them to throw big soft open loops and tighten from there then I missed something. I want my students to be able to throw tails, open and tight loops. So if they have the tails nailed already that’s one less to worry about

Most tails with this sort of gear are a problem at he beginning of the stroke. Teach Drag, or feeing heavy, or the weight of the line. If that’s not solving it then get them to cast 2m, 3m, 4m etc. Wide loops, narrow loops, tails. These things are so ingrained usually, that small adjustments just don’t cut it.

I’d also put a 4WT in their hands. Change the feel completely.

I used to get a lot of tailing loop problems when teaching Stillwater casters for the reservoirs. Tell them it’s an advanced problem and make them feel good. If it can’t be solved quickly in the air then triangle method off the ground - at least then they can go home and fix it in their backyard.

Despite what everyone says, the root problem is not tip path or force application. The problem is in their head!

Cheers, Paul

[Jason Borger]

In the context of my original question which is specifically about casting with heavy 12wt equipment, would incorporating the "micro-layback" technique still be valid? Or is it better suited for much lighter rods/lines?

I use it whenever and wherever I think it will do the trick. When time and "tarpon fever" are issues, I like "fixes" that have an actual chance of being remembered on the boat. All the deep mechanical massaging from a qualified/certified/ambassador-ified instructor means jack if the angler can't put it to use with sweaty palms. I think you know exactly what I mean, which is why you started this thread in the first place, yeah?

[Morsie]

I find filming the gap between the butt of the rod and their forearm to be the best indicator for someone to clearly see their mistimed power application. I see this so often in casters who are coming from using spin or plug rods. You'll usually see that bit of wrist gap snap shut in the middle of the rotation rather than at the end, or at least it won't be in the right place.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Filming indeed is a fantastic teaching tool in both directions, checking details for the instructor + demonstrating it cause per cause to the student. Smartphones already do a briliant job here. I use that in nearly every lesson.
Cheers
B

[clayed21085]

This is back to the concept of lay back and related to something paul wrote years ago when he was incorporating his " extended drift" technique to handling long lines, In that " flattening" the drift effectively aligns the tip of the rod at the angle of the straightening line in that reduces or eliminates the tip being pulled down at the start of cast (if the line completely straightens) in which would promote a tail, pulling the rod like a javelin initially, really loading it near the end corrects this. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this

[Paul Arden]

Yes that’s exactly how I see it. And as James wrote earlier in the other creep/tailing thread recently it’s the angle that makes the rod tip susceptible to dipping. Even more important with soft rods of course.

Cheers, Paul