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Slow down on the backcast

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bartdezwaan
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Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 6:39 pm

Slow down on the backcast

#1

Post by bartdezwaan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:56 pm

Yesterday I had a student who was throwing nice front loops but overpowered the backcast.
I tried several things:
- start slower
- relax the hand more and try to feel the tension
- I grabbed the blank and tried him to feel the slow start of the accelaration
None worked.

What would you try to get a student to slow down on the back cast?

Cheers, Bart

Geenomad
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Location: Melbourne

Re: Slow down on the backcast

#2

Post by Geenomad » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:35 pm

Hi Bart
Always hard to offer a useful opinion without knowing the student or their skill level and without seeing them cast. I assume you have them watching the back cast so the problem should be in sight and also that you have demonstrated correct tempo and power moderation.

A few things come to mind. What is the underlying cause of the problem? I might ask the more advanced student why he thinks the back cast is being overpowered and whether he has always cast like this and if so how did it start. How does overpowering make sense or not make sense to him?

Secondly, I might try asking him to deliver off the back cast and use the forward cast as though it were a back cast - with false casting accordingly or simply a series of PUALDs - in both directions.

I would also shorten up the casting distance considerably and ask him to slow down the tempo of casts in both directions and do this in combination with the above. That might lessen the felt need to overpower because he is now in a comfort zone where doesn't "have" to try hard. It might help even out the tempo between forward and back casts.

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

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Graeme H
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Slow down on the backcast

#3

Post by Graeme H » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:10 am

Mark's suggestions are similar to my approach, especially the one about delivering on the BC.

Other things I'd suggest:
  • Watch the BC
  • Cast in synchronicity with the student, asking them to match my tempo
  • Try to get them to use the "minimum power drill" on the BC (i.e. just enough power to stop the loop at the nail knot.)
Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI

Boisker
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Re: Slow down on the backcast

#4

Post by Boisker » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:44 am

make them wear an electric dog collar, then shout slower and electric shock them every time they get it wrong :D

John Waters
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Re: Slow down on the backcast

#5

Post by John Waters » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:28 am

Hi Bart,

A few questions about the cast,

Is it a standard Overhead Cast or a Distance Cast and what length of line is being cast?
Is he/she throwing power ripples or waves in the backcast, or is the loop kicking, or both?
Is he/she hauling when this is happening and if so how long is the haul?

Be interested to know,

John

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bartdezwaan
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Re: Slow down on the backcast

#6

Post by bartdezwaan » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:09 am

Thanks for the tips.
I am going for the electric collar :)

@John
- It is a standard Overhead cast and the length is 40ft (12.2m). He is training for the FFI CI certificate
- There are some power ripples, but mostly the bottom of the loop is kicking downwards and is very wide
- He is not hauling

Cheers, Bart

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Paul Arden
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Re: Slow down on the backcast

#7

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:49 pm

Great thread. Lots of excellent advice. With this criteria it sounds to me that he is casting using force through a wide arc You can fix this just with the “squeeze stop”. Instead of 40ft cast 20ft. Triangle Method if you are stuck. I’m not sure I would identify it as too much power instead of too much force too soon. “Feeling for the line” at the beginning of the backcast might work. The other option is to teach fully blown distance cast and then dial back. What I find really important is not to dwell too much and change the picture. If the guy struggles with 40ft backcast then teach 20ft, teach 60ft.

Hope you are well Bart! :D :pirate:

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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John Waters
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Re: Slow down on the backcast

#8

Post by John Waters » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:12 am

Thanks Bart, that eliminates a few areas of focus that may be causal issues. The direction of the loop described is most likely a result of a backcast that is back and down. Get him to change that to a back and up follow through or drift after the block. It just continues the tip path upward and over the rod hand shoulder to a point that above and slightly behind the head in the vertical plane. At 40 feet the block should be be above the shoulder, the follow through to a point above the head. Get him to experiment with the position of the block and follow through or drift stop. The essential is that it is upward and is driven by the vertical lift of the rod hand elbow, which moves vertically, not horizontally on a 40 foot standard Overhead Cast. The thumbnail is the indicator, get him to watch that, forget rod tip, loop etc, just focus on the position of the thumbnail at the block and the follow through. Now, I know the examiners like the caster to watch the back and forward casts, but fix his casting issue first, then he can adopt the test persona.

John

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bartdezwaan
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Re: Slow down on the backcast

#9

Post by bartdezwaan » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:45 am

Thanks for all the excellent advice guys.
Sunday I will have another shot at it. Will let you know what worked.

Cheers, Bart

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bartdezwaan
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Re: Slow down on the backcast

#10

Post by bartdezwaan » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:34 pm

As promised hereby the update about how things went today.
Prepared with all the suggestions mentioned here, I tried to fix this guy his casting error.
I decided to first go with something simple and one I have not done before. The "squeeze stop"
Boom, instant success!
Thanks all for the tips. I will keep them in the back of my mind.

Cheers, Bart

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