Too wide a casting arc...

[Lasse Karlsson]

You could just start with this one and see where it goes

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Do you think casters use a narrower arc when they feel the line?

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

No

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Have you ever seen a situation where a caster when given a stiff rod and a light line throws open loops? And yet if you give the same caster a more “matched” outfit have a serviceable cast?

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Not as far as I can remember

I've had plenty throw massive tails when handed a softer rod, and when handed a comp outfit with a light line and a stiff rod, not get the line moving much and just add slack with each stroke..
Men are funny like that, when they shouldn't listen to their brain they do, and when they should listen, they don't

Did I mention I rarely see these problems with female casters?

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Is that because they never listen to their brains?

That’s very strange. Open/non loops with stiff rods and light lines is very common.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Only with short lines, stick 50 feet outside and its a different story, until they do the most manly thing and flex the upper arm more and more

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

What I would normally expect to see a less experienced caster do, when given such tackle, is to throw very wide non-loops. If the amount of line is long then it’s quite possible that the end of the line won’t even pass the rod tip (or sometimes barely leave the ground!), so wide and ineffective is the loop.

If you give the same caster a heavier line or for that matter a softer rod, along the lines of what they are more used to, and it works.

So there are two possibilities as to why this is so: 1) the heavier mass/softer rod bends the tip into a straighter path throwing a tighter loop 2) the beginner caster, when he fails to feel the resistance of the rod bending, subconsciously uses a wider arc throwing a wide/non loop.

I think both apply. And while this is at the extreme, I think it’s for this reason that fly line companies are making lines heavier; rather it’s not because they go further but because since rods have become stiffer over the years the only way to counteract that for a “less-trained” caster is to put a heavier line on which gives the important “feel” element that he/she expects.

The root problem is therefore not with the line companies but rather general anglers buying rods that are too stiff in the mistaken believe that these are superior. Or you can blame rod companies and marketing . Were line companies to stick to AFFTA ratings anglers would soon learn this!

What is weird of course is when a company produces both rods and lines, and yet still manufactures outside and above the AFFTA system. I can offer no explanation for this

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Have a look at all the guru's, selfproclaimed world champions and what not, that very seriously proclaims that the AFFTA line standard is dead, obsolete and non functioning... That you need to engage the butt section of the rod (they sell) because thats where the power is, and you must let the rod do the work (with the brick on a string line they also sell) otherwise you will not cast correctly!

If I where to blame anyone, its the line companies and pseudo manufactures which are not members of AFFTA that the last 30 years progressievly have increased the weight of their lines, and have argumented for the abandonment of the standard as it doesn't work, while still writing the numbers on boxes and rods

How much stiffer is your HT6 than say a sage RPL 690 from 30 years ago?

I don’t buy the rods have gone stiffer so we need a heavier line but with the same number bs, thats a bad excuse.

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

The CCS database will prove or disprove that. I’ll have to go in with a hammer. I still have my first fly rod. It was a fibreglass rod not uncommon in those days!

One of my early rods was a B&W Hexagraph 9’6 7WT. This summer I’ll CCS it for you.

Later on in the early 90s when Sage rods started to appear in the UK the common shop recommendation was to upline them by one line weight.

Cheers, Paul