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Too much power!

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Paul Arden
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Re: Too much power!

#11

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:41 am

I think it actually can be. But it’s not the bend itself; rather it’s what’s going on in the line. When the loop unrolls there is still - often - rather a lot of energy left. Very few of us actually use only enough energy to straighten the line, most of us use significantly more energy. Normally when that loop finally unrolls that energy dissipates in a number of ways, but if we start the next stroke at this very moment, or slightly prior to it, I think it’s enough to cause severe loop problems.

I realise that many of us begin elements of the overall stroke prior to Loop Straight, and I know that we try to maintain line tension, but the actually part that we call the Casting Stroke IMO can only happen after this loop straightening energy on the previous cast has been largely removed.

“You can’t hit the boing” :cool:

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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Too much power!

#12

Post by nicholasfmoore » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:17 am

Hi Paul,

Do you think it's a bit of panic for students, or rather trying to start the forward cast 'immediately' 🙃

I do see what you mean, didn't you mention that you wait for everything to unroll? For fishing distances 😀

What do you mean by the boing, Paul? Is that a sexy loops term?

All the best

Nick

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Re: Too much power!

#13

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:13 am

Yes it goes back to... I don’t know, “whiplash” days probably. Boing is the excess energy when the loop straightens. There is a sudden pull on the rod tip at Loop Straight. Most often we slip line at this point to cushion it - check your hauling hand to see if you are doing this?!

Many people have argued on the Board that the boing is when you should hit or start the forward cast. Maybe even capturing this energy and using it to increase rod bend - phew that was argued for years.

I have tried this of course, by having someone call it out, and it’s been highly disruptive to the integrity of the subsequent loop. It causes tails and other things that we haven’t given names to, but they are certainly not sexy!

So for smooth casting I thing firstly we have to get rid of that energy, slowly start moving the line in the opposite direction and then hit it. And despite what many of us think we might be doing - I think that’s probably what we are all doing.

Of course, we may have started the Overall Stroke prior to LSP, I know I do for distance, but the actual Casting Stroke I think happens later.

Cheers, Paul
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Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Too much power!

#14

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:00 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:13 am

Many people have argued on the Board that the boing is when you should hit or start the forward cast. Maybe even capturing this energy and using it to increase rod bend - phew that was argued for years.
Paul,

I would like to re-read those arguments. I either missed them or forgot 'em. Could you point where they are archived?

As I indicated in a recent post somewhere, I kinda still feel it is better to be a bit early than late. (To start, not hit). I actually think it is worse to let the line straighten completely as it then loses tension and begins to fall, and then you are wasting part of the forward stroke to recapture what has been lost.

In fact, I have tried to "crack the whip" like some beginners do, on purpose. I thought that if I could do that on a nice long back cast I would know when exactly was "too early". Has anyone tried that? I can't do it, for some reason, on the back cast. I have to make the "pop" on a forward cast to demo it for students!
“Very simple man. Catching fish makes me happy. Scaringly simple.”

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Re: Too much power!

#15

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:08 pm

I’ll dig them out Gary. I’m pretty sure it’s ok the last Board and not the one prior to this. I’ll look tomorrow 👍

I have no problems cracking the backcast. Just throw a tight (softish to be sure) back loop and start early. Sometimes I crack them all just for fun. Bang bang bang bang bang. OK I get my kicks easily :laugh:

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Re: Too much power!

#16

Post by nicholasfmoore » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:30 pm

:laugh:

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Re: Too much power!

#17

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:45 am

It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Bianchetti Ivan
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Re: Too much power!

#18

Post by Bianchetti Ivan » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:44 am

I think the point of applying force depends a lot on the lever you are using (I could also be wrong, I have no proof).

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Re: Too much power!

#19

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:23 pm

I’m not sure. I’ve always seen it as the loop unrolls, you get the line moving in the next direction and then you hit it. I do think that with softer rods you need to apply the force more gradually, whereas with stiffer rods you can really spike the force, particularly around the second half of rotation.

It’s interesting that we often talk about “too much power(force)” as being a casting fault. But I think “inappropriate” application of force would be a better description. After all, competition casters when throwing distance often use far more force - to the extent of breaking butt sections - compared to those less proficient casters who we say are using too much force. The two most common faults in this regards, I think, are 1) applying force through translation and not rotation, particularly in the second half of the casting arc and 2) “hitting it too early“, ie in the first half of the casting arc.

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Re: Too much power!

#20

Post by nicholasfmoore » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:13 pm

Hi all,

Thanks for finding that, Paul, that was a very interesting read indeed!

Absolutely, it's a very common thing among anglers to say that the cause of a loop tailing is 'too much force' :laugh: but if it's another cause then that's wrong :oh:
The two most common faults in this regards, I think, are 1) applying force through translation and not rotation, particularly in the second half of the casting arc and 2) “hitting it too early“, ie in the first half of the casting arc.
Can't argue with that at all :cool:

All the best

Nick

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