Closed stance (accuracy) - big back loop

[bartdezwaan]

If I ask someone to try to cast closed stance (accuracy style), almost always they have a big back loop.
How would you fix this?

Cheers, Bart

[Lasse Karlsson]

Do their accuracy suffer?
And what's the point of changing their stance?

Cheers
Lasse

[bartdezwaan]

Well, this was actually an advice from a very well known instructor, competition caster and rod designer.
His name is Paul. You know him?

I showed Paul a video of someone who had a tendency to tail. He was casting without using his shoulder, started very slow and had a very subtle abrupt power application half way through.
Paul advised to try the accuracy stand (pulling thing), because it would probably be easier to try something different than to make a small fix to his current style.

Till today I am having difficulties to fix this. Different people gave me advice about things to try. The only one that got rid of the tendency to tail was Paul's advice. Only that opened up his back loop. "Pulling" the rod down on the forward cast and pulling the line over the rod tip made a lot of sense to the caster. However, it does not work like this on the backcast.

Also in our dutch competitions, I see almost everyone throw open loops on the backcast when accuracy casting. If I don't focus on it, I do this myself too.
I know how to fix it for myself. Even with the small stoke length I focus on late rotation and that would fix it for me. For some reason I am having trouble learning my flawless technique to others

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers, Bart

[Paul Arden]

Hi Bart,

There is quite a lot of information in this thread viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3204 and I’m currently uploading a video on this too.

I’m a huge believer in teaching stance. Both closed and open. Closed helps square the shoulders and is my preferred stance for accuracy shots for everything up to about 100’. I only open up for longer shots. So most of my fishing is closed stance. And I think its something everyone should learn!

Open loops on the pickup are one of several things but generally is failure to make a proper lift, so the entire stroke becomes a huge wide arc, or assuming they do have a proper lift, then the casting arc is too wide. Just making the backcast with a squeeze of the hand is more than enough for a pick up backcast.

Taking it further lifting the elbow into the backcast stroke, will both tighten the loop and send it higher.

I would also look at grip. With the palm down you can use wrist extension on the backcast as opposed to radial deviation which helps make for a smaller arc/ higher stop.

Finally if none of these are a successful quick fix I would start with a short line and use the Triangle Method and minimum power drills.

There are some other quick fixes, for example ask them to try to cast the back cast vertically, ask them to tail the backcast and so on but I think the above is a more comprehensive approach.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

Edit- I see it’s not just the pickup. Well the first thing to do is fix the pickup! If that loop is tight the rest might follow. For the false casts I would look at the grip, ie how the wrist is being used, remind them that they are trying to ring a bell on the backcast that aligns to their front target trajectory (or in this case their hover position), lift the elbow into the backcast. Since the forward cast is travelling through an imaginary tunnel it makes sense that the backcast is too.

Generally I find introducing an imaginary bell as a target on the backcast can really do wonders.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

Hold a rod in your hand and look how the rod angle moves when you go from maximum Radial Deviation to maximum Extension. With the “palm forward” grip it automatically stops the rod higher.

[bartdezwaan]

Thanks for the explanation Paul.
This gives me something to work with.
I don't think i fully understand the last bit.
How do you go from max Radial Deviation to max Extension? I don't think I ever end up in a maximum extension position. Which way is the rod then pointing?

Cheers, Bart

[Paul Arden]

Ok! Casting with Radial Deviation on the backcast...

Casting with Extension on the backcast...

Hope that makes it clearer

Cheers, Paul

[bartdezwaan]

Yes, very clear!
So you advice to try casting with extension in the backcast, to force a smaller arc?

Cheers, Bart

[Paul Arden]

That’s one reason. I also find that this is simply a more natural wrist movement. Like throwing a ball. I find it much easier to make small controlled movements with the wrist in the plane.

It’s not the only way I use the wrist in casting, but it’s certainly how I teach and train accuracy. It will or should automatically throw a higher backcast.

Cheers, Paul