Essentails Revisited

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Essentails Revisited

Post Number:#81  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:36 pm

Paul Arden wrote:one of the methods I've seen you use and teach to tighten the loop is to use Swoop. For me that is deliberately altering the tip path as the rod unloads by lifting the butt instead of simply stopping it.


Hi Paul,
I sometimes offer a look on this method to get an idea, why some of us may use it. Teaching a beginner I prefer to teach a basement without "swoop" (haven't heard that name yet :) ).
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Bernd
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Essentails Revisited

Post Number:#82  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:42 pm

Michal Duzynski wrote:
Bernd Ziesche wrote:
Chase Jablonski wrote:Loop formation is the result of a slight deceleration, not a complete stop.

We stop because it's convenient not because it affects the loop.




Is there a vid available showing someone fly casting and not having a higher rate of deceleration than he/she was accelerating first? Or maybe a vid showing fly casting without deceleration at all?
Greets
Bernd

Hi Bernd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do5fVqPJ ... ata_player
I made this video this mornning (quality not the best) is this wha you wanted to see. Im
not stoping the rod, Im not slowing down and there are some cool loops, loops are
better when I do it in horizontal plane.
I wouldn teach that to the begginer, and I wouldnt fish this way either.
This is just for the purpouse of this discussion that loops can be formed on BC&FC without stoping the rod. It can be done also in slower speed rate.
cheers
mike


Hi Mike,
nice video. As far as I understand it: Your rod tip passes a "zero speed" point between every single forward and back cast. To me that is stopping the rod. You accelerate it and then decelerate it. Even though you immediately start to accelerate again. If I would want to make a cast on the purpose of not stoping it, I would aim for an oval movement in as constant speed as possible or slight increasing speed. But I must say: It doesn't seem to make much sense to me to cast in such a way. :)
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Bernd
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Essentails Revisited

Post Number:#83  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:53 pm

Mike Heritage wrote:As has been pointed out the rod doesn't actually stop in real life, it straightens, goes into counterflex, straightens again and by then you may have moved into a drift or just repositioned the hand.


Hi Mike,
personally I think we always stop one section of the rod after another one. I agree usually never all sections will be motionless at the same time. But still we stop every part of the rod at some point between the fc and the bc and opposite.
The time frame of "zero speed" might be very small - depeneding on the exact cast - but it will be there as far as I understand it.
Having a focus on the rod hand seems to be a good additional idea to me!
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Bernd
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Essentails Revisited

Post Number:#84  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:55 pm

Paul Arden wrote:Here's something to try for yourself as a much more experienced caster: instead of stopping the rod [butt] try "nudging" the rod.


Paul,
having just used the translator I still have no idea what "nudging" means or how to nudge the rod at the end of the stroke. :cool:
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Bernd
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Essentails Revisited

Post Number:#85  Postby scotty9 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:20 pm

Bill Gammel wrote:I see the essentials differently now. I see the SLP as the ultimate essential. This is the goal of a straight line, overhead cast. It can not be accomplished without all of the essentials working together. So I now teach them in a different order. I start out with 15 feet of line outside the rod tip and the line pinned under a finger, however, I don;t mention slack. It just confuses them. I teach them about a smooth acceleration to a stop. I have them do this by sliding loops along the ground. After this I teach them to adjust the width of the casting arc. Then I move them to casting side arm with the line waist high. Here they learn their timing and the pause essential is added. Now they are getting lots reps by false casting. I then move the cast to vertical and teach them about the straight line path (right to left or not throwing a curve cast) Then we add line and I teach them to adjust their stroke while reading loops. Show how all 5 essentials work to gather to throw a u shaped loop. I then emphasize no slack as they learn to shoot line.


I've been teaching using a similar method with a bridge of this and Lee's triangle method (the visual casting arc representation). What I really like about the way you've got it set out Bill is that right from the outset you are teaching variation and understanding in the casting arc/loop shapes from the outset. Rather than just having a focus on the ideal or the goal, there is a conscious yet simple effort to enable the student to understand how they make different loop shapes and how to correct them. All the time whilst learning the movement and the feel of the motion you have taught a better understanding and self correction.

I'm definitely going to incorporate this element into my basic teaching. I had been teaching the varying casting arc and stroke by having the student increase the length of line, then increase the arc and stroke, as well as the other elements, in order to maintain good loops. I'm going to try teaching the variable arc with a fixed length of line as you prescribe though, I really like that. I'd always looked at the one foot at a time drill and varying casting arcs (and power application too) as an improver course of action rather than an absolute beginner type drill but can now see it needn't be that way.
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Post Number:#86  Postby Bill Gammel » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:13 pm

Scotty,
I also like this approach because my students see success quickly. The majority of my students are hoping to saltwater fish. Starting with roll casting does not give them the impression that they are progressing. False casting in the first lesson, although a short line, gives them some confidence that they will soon be shooting line across a flat.

Paul, I will be fishing with Rick on Friday. I wish you could be there.
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Post Number:#87  Postby Paul Arden » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:52 pm

Say hi from me, Bill. I'm in the middle of sorting out a US Visa for next year. Catch a Redfish for me :)

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Post Number:#88  Postby Paul Arden » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:58 pm

Incidentally I'm off to Russia next week for a fly fishing show in Siberia (and then a week's fishing). The topic I've been given is your Five Essentials! I always introduce the topic by telling them about the bass you caught in the swamp before making a cast :cool:
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Post Number:#89  Postby Bill Gammel » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:10 pm

Hey, you got be good to do that.
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