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170 style

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Bernd Ziesche
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170 style

#1

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:37 pm

Hi everyone,
if I google "170 style flycasting" quite some stuff comes up about it. Seems as if this name has made it's way fast into many corners of the globe. :) I am wondering what exctly characterizes that style?

Following all the material I found, stances and grips vary. Body movements vary. Slides vary. Arcs vary.
The only thing in common seems to be a relatively wide arc in order to create high line speed for a distance shoot.
It seems to be hard to find a video showing a real 170° arc, but easy to find lots which are still below 170°.

Maybe the name was given to make it clear, to refer about a wider arc to be used than most casters did use at that time?

What I personally don't like too much about it, is that it refers to just one size of arc. But who wouldn't want to adjust his arc to a lot of different circumstances like wind, rod stiffness, force application and so on.
Does this style allow arc adjustmens when starting with the shorter line (does it only refer to the final delievery cast)?

Ok, tournament casters often try to get the line out fast. Therefore they usually start right off with a good length of line to lift and then use a wide arc right from the beginning in order to lengthen the line fast (in high speed). The first one or two loop shapes aren't of much interest as it seems often (and are mostly a bit more open due to starting with a wide arc). :p
In a fishing situation I mostly would start a bit smoother, using a bit smaller arc first for a short line and then increase a little.

Looking at quite some arcs we have seen in the world champion ships in Norway, the name seems to stay for a relatively wide arc but often being less then 170°.

Image
Image

For me it seems as if everyone uses his very own arc. There seem to be more differences than one might have thought without having a closer look.
If Rick Hartman (who I was told founded this style) uses a wide arc and Steve Rajeff uses a small arc, then I could find almost every size of arc all the way inbetween both of them.

So what exactly does it refer to? :cool:
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

Tom
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170 style

#2

Post by Tom » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:59 pm

It could be that this one is a true 170?Even more?

Tom.

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Bernd Ziesche
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170 style

#3

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:05 pm

That's a good one, Tom! Am afraid it indeed is a 180 style almost. :D
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

chris09
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170 style

#4

Post by chris09 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:17 pm

I will watch this thread with interest.

I did a fair bit of distance casting practice last year and looked at the 170 and other styles with a long casting stroke.

The general consensus was that you need to lengthen your casting stroke to increase your distance but is this true in all cases?

I once read an article that said some of the most talented casters can make very long casts with short stroke lengths. I would put Steve Rajeff in this category. I don't think I have ever seen him do any distance cast that comes close to a 170 arc.

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Marc Fauvet
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170 style

#5

Post by Marc Fauvet » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:25 pm

this subject came up a long time ago. i can't find my angle-ruler thingy but i seem to remember this pic of Chase being of that arc.
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Bernd Ziesche
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170 style

#6

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:30 pm

chris09 wrote:I would put Steve Rajeff in this category. I don't think I have ever seen him do any distance cast that comes close to a 170 arc.
Lasse Karlsson wrote: What I am really getting at, is all the talk about narrow arc compared to broad arc, when both Steve and Paul has very similar arc's for their delivery cast, even active stroke length....I've been saying it for years, so it's sort of becoming a obsession for me :whistle:
Paul Arden wrote:Yes I agree Lasse. Mine, Steve's, your delivery arc are all very similar and I've also been arguing that for years too.
Chris, I agree with your observation. But let's see what Lasse and Paul will throw in here.
I think one problem is, that without analysing a video we easily might be wrong about the size of arc by just watching someone casting.
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Bernd Ziesche
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170 style

#7

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:33 pm

Chase:
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

chris09
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170 style

#8

Post by chris09 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:47 pm

My observations are only from watching videos but his strength seems to come from his powerful stop on the back cast and then again from his consistent machine like final delivery.

Videos may be deceiving though because the video above doesn't look like a 100 ft cast to me.

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Lasse Karlsson
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170 style

#9

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:24 pm

170ish

[vimeo]3764716[/vimeo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6W1X633 ... QcJeyhNyPA

Rick is indeed the originator as far as I know, he taught Paul to do it, and Paul taught the rest of us, and then we all modified it to suit us, as I say we all have our own unique style :pirate:

Worth looking at him too, one of the most recent clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8AcQOKkzXQ

And the first that blew us away here:

[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvawA9BnIUE][/url]
It's pretty easy to see where the 170 came from :)


And a older one of Fredrik Hedman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpSdAKkb4tA

On the old board there where several debates about narrow arc wide arc and different "styles"
Magnus made a pic from a casting competition of Steve showing a wider arc than he used in those casts you have chosen Bernd. Also most used a very wide arc in the beginning as can be seen both on the early Hartmann clip as well as on the clips of me. The really wide one almost hitting the grass was done for a different purpose though ;) Most have found that after getting into it, one can reduce the arc alot and get better results. Still the biggest difference as I see it, is that most 170'ers drift forward and reduce the available arc, and Steve drifts back to get a bigger arc, the ending point in the forward cast seems about the same for both camps :)

It is if boiled down just a technique, flop the rod and let the peak of the haul determine the direction the line goes. The flop is what makes it feel stopless, and since one doesn't emphazise the stop, one can instead relax and have a good time :cool:

Cheers
Lasse
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http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

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Lasse Karlsson
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170 style

#10

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:29 pm

chris09 wrote:My observations are only from watching videos but his strength seems to come from his powerful stop on the back cast and then again from his consistent machine like final delivery.

Videos may be deceiving though because the video above doesn't look like a 100 ft cast to me.
Chase shot it when there was a debate about how little effort was need to throw 100 feet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cY0l0K_eLg

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Lasse
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***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

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