Keys to Distance

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Keys to Distance

Post Number:#1  Postby James9118 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:29 pm

Picking up on Bernd's FP today

The ROTATION (of the rod): It should be positioned in the very last part of the stroke.


If I had to find a video of someone who rotates throughout the casting stroke I'd pull up a video of Tor Gjersoe (ok, the slo-mo shows a bit of initial translation but not much). Now obviously he is the current world champion, beating all the late rotators.

On top of this, the physics tells us the route to the highest linespeed is to superimpose the rotation on top of the translation (as Tor does) - and not to try and separate the two.

So are the benefits of late rotation over stated?
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Post Number:#2  Postby Paul Arden » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:57 pm

Hi guys,

I feel a good discussion coming on!! :cool:

I have a problem with stopless. Why do you think a fast stop is important? It's not the stop that matters, it's what happens before that matters. I would argue that learning not to stop the rod is perhaps the single most important step forward in learning distance. (especially with all the teaching to stop the rod).

I don't think you're taking the flex of the rod into account James?

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Post Number:#3  Postby Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:50 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
I have a problem with stopless. Why do you think a fast stop is important? It's not the stop that matters, it's what happens before that matters. I would argue that learning not to stop the rod is perhaps the single most important step forward in learning distance. (especially with all the teaching to stop the rod).

Cheers, Paul


I agree... So that's me out of this discussion :D

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Post Number:#4  Postby Paul Arden » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:58 pm

Not again!!! :p :p
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Post Number:#5  Postby Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:42 pm

James9118 wrote:Picking up on Bernd's FP today

The ROTATION (of the rod): It should be positioned in the very last part of the stroke.


If I had to find a video of someone who rotates throughout the casting stroke I'd pull up a video of Tor Gjersoe (ok, the slo-mo shows a bit of initial translation but not much). Now obviously he is the current world champion, beating all the late rotators.

On top of this, the physics tells us the route to the highest linespeed is to superimpose the rotation on top of the translation (as Tor does) - and not to try and separate the two.

So are the benefits of late rotation over stated?


Hi James

Looking at Tor's latest clip, I'd say he's a late rotator :)

And I don't think I've seen anyone, not superimposing the two, the closest I can think of, would be Rick Hartmann, and he'd probably beat us all sans the bloody competition nerves :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8AcQOKkzXQ

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Post Number:#6  Postby scotty9 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:56 pm

Paul Arden wrote:Hi guys,

I don't think you're taking the flex of the rod into account James?

Cheers, Paul


Accounting for the flex in the rod is it not fair to say that with rotation and translation superimposed the bulk of rotational movement and the corresponding point of greatest acceleration will occur late in the stroke. Does this not start to come down to what exactly do we mean by late rotation? All of the rotation late or just the majority and peak of its force?

I definitely go with the rotation exists for most of the stroke but the bulk of angular change and peak acceleration occurs late.
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Post Number:#7  Postby Paul Arden » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:02 am

FWIW I have a slightly different take, Bernd. Which can be useful for readers because often two different view points can often make for a clearer picture. And besides often people argue destructively without offering anything constructive!

My keys for distance are:

1 Body movement, the cast should start from the ground up
2 Tracking
3 Line carry and Line speed
5 Force application - late, including rotation and indeed I think max force should be applied late in the rotation too, coinciding with the position where most people would make the stop
6 The launch.

I also talk about number of false casts and breathing.

This is slightly different from non-competition distance, where 5 becomes a tight loop (using Drag), 6 disappears, as does the importance of breathing.

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Post Number:#8  Postby RooG » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:35 am

James9118 wrote:If I had to find a video of someone who rotates throughout the casting stroke I'd pull up a video of Tor Gjersoe (ok, the slo-mo shows a bit of initial translation but not much). Now obviously he is the current world champion, beating all the late rotators.

I don't agree with your observation. Take a look at this clip starting at 2:17 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtmNUw-KGqI

Tor looks like a very high person and moves back and forth during his false casts. With such long legs and arms and upper body movement this gives him a lot of translation - compare this to the translation achieved by the caster next to him. Also take a close look at his delivery cast - isn't it a late rotation?
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Post Number:#9  Postby Ben_d » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:02 pm

There is a lot of translation in Tot's cast, he accomplishes this with his body. He has a very unique style, far less wristy then most other casters. I'm a little surprised and actually disappointed by your comment there James, not taking anything away from Tor's title or victory but you have been on a platform, you know full well that external conditions, even very slight changes, make a difference. I think to compare styles you need a lot more data over several events and different sets of tackle in a range of conditions. Or, you could simply do the maths and prove which one theoretically should give the best results?

I know that when I rotate late and haul late James, my casts go further regardless of set up or tackle


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Post Number:#10  Postby Massew » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:06 pm

Hi.

I have to admit that I don't understand the concept of a stopless cast. Is it called that because the rod never stops moving, as when rotation is followed immediately by the drift, or is it something different?

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