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teaching roll cast tasmanian style

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t.z.
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:01 am

teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#1

Post by t.z. » Mon May 25, 2015 9:49 pm

I stumbled overt this video - https://www.facebook.com/tzflyfishing.n ... tif_t=like

I quite like the way he explains the rolle cast. A little differenbt to the general "D-Loop" anlysis. What do the experts say?

Magnus
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teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#2

Post by Magnus » Mon May 25, 2015 10:24 pm

His weights are a bit off but he makes sense.
"Actually I can't because you are right! " Paul Arden 8/6/2019

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Merlin
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teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#3

Post by Merlin » Sat May 30, 2015 7:37 am

Thanks for the link Thomas

For the current discussion about translation and rotation, this is an interesting demonstration. Does it explain the mechanics of the distance cast? The question (and dispute) is open!

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

Geenomad
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teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#4

Post by Geenomad » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:26 am

I'm not an expert but I will overlook my disqualification. :)

I like what Peter Hayes does in general and the innovation that comes from his independence of mind but..... Maybe it's just me, but there is a point where the showmanship starts to upstage the practice and that irritates me. eg. He is undoubtedly right about late rotation for roll or other casts (not going anywhere near that other thread). And yes it's helpful to have less line on the surface and thus more aerialised or "effectively so", but walking 10 metres back from the pool is not helpful in demonstrating a "roll cast", in tight conditions or frankly, otherwise IMHO. Starts to look more like a reverse PULD.

For sure it demonstrates the effectiveness of late rotation but if one had that much room to the rear a "roll cast" probably wouldn't be chosen. Not being an expert I can't say exactly when a roll cast becomes a power roll or a power roll becomes a single spey but if faced with limited room behind and the need for an expeditious, low delivery of reasonable length and accuracy that's where my thoughts would be going. And maybe that's where Peter is going too and he's just pushing the definition envelope without declaring his intent. If so, fair enough. Fly casting is fly casting as music is music.

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

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Paul Arden
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teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#5

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:05 am

I missed this! Well firstly, Peter has the best static roll cast I've ever seen, ignoring the walking back and forward and so on. He manages to combine rod angle with wrist snap with a result that is quite remarkable. No one else I've seen perform roll casts throws such tight pointed loops so close to the water surface. Truly quite exceptional.

I think the walking back and forward should be the prelude to teaching the jump roll/ switch cast, but I've also seen him teach it to compete beginners and it is certainly effective. However, in this case, I don't think it's so much about teaching the roll cast as is it teaching about understanding it.

His stroke incidentally was built around throwing roll casts to targets in competition. I can't watch the video because I'm in the sticks of Latohegy! :p

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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John Waters
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teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#6

Post by John Waters » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:53 am

Spot on Paul, tournament casting is the best way to improve your casting because everything is at the extreme. Something as simple as a roll cast is also at the extreme. Learning to throw fast and tight roll cast loops the apex of which is as close as possible to the water surface is required or else you will exceed the time limit allowed for the event. Obviously, the more adverse the conditions, the more critical those two roll loop properties become. In an event you are restricted to standing, or kneeling within a 1.2 m square casting platform. One thing that is often not explained is that at the extreme, the roll cast can be made with no pause and without not relying on the conventional D loop formation. It is also surprising to some how much you can change your angle between two delivery casts without relying on snake roll pickups. (I think that is the term but that may just reflect my ignorance - I am of the view that there are only two categories of casts, the overhead and the roll) I am sure Haysie would illustrate that if he had more time to examine various roll cast technique options. I always smile when I hear someone say that tournament casting techniques are unrelated to fishing requirements. That just reflects ignorance of the many commonalties that exist across both activities. Bit like the well worn statement by some who say that they do not have to learn to cast 25 plus metres because they catch all the fish they desire within a range of 10 metres.

Ahhhh, ignorance is bliss,

John

Geenomad
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teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#7

Post by Geenomad » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:20 am

Hi Paul
Tom gave us a link to a clip, said he liked how Peter explained the roll cast and asked what the experts say. I responded to the question and offered an opinion.

Having watched the clip I agree that Peter's roll cast is exceptionally tidy but his casting capability wasn't in issue and not what I commented on.

When you've seen the clip you might want to comment on Tom's question but to me the wider subject of understanding raised in your second para has more potential. My post flirted with similar notions in the last few sentences as did John's view that there are only two types of cast - overhead and roll.

John, if the last bit of your post was somehow aimed at me then you can take this as a refusal. :)

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

John Waters
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teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#8

Post by John Waters » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:09 am

Hi Mark,

My apologies re the last statement on my post. It was aimed at those people I have met along my journey who have made the comments about casting and fishing I referred to earlier in my post. Unlike yourself, they operate in a environment that restricts or even precludes, experimentation and learning anything new or unconventional.

Your initial post, and the statements contained therein, would indicate to me you are definitely not of that ilk.

Well said,

John

Geenomad
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teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#9

Post by Geenomad » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:28 am

Hi John
No worries mate, understood. BTW when I first read your post I was tempted to react to what I interpreted as a reaction rather than a response. Having read some of your other posts on other threads I had formed the impression that, and I'm not pocket pissing, you were thoughtful and informed so I waited the statutory 24 hours, reread it and responded in a different frame of mind. :D Posts and their sequence can make it is easy to misinterpret and you've clarified my (mis) interpretation. Thanks.

And FWIW I agree about the value of knowing what you don't know, or at least allowing for the possibility eh? Angling does seem to attract the opinionated as well as the curious. :)

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

John Waters
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:16 pm

teaching roll cast tasmanian style

#10

Post by John Waters » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:43 am

G'Day Mark,

Hope to catch up for a chat and a cast one day,

John

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