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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

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Paul Arden
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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#1

Post by Paul Arden » Tue May 16, 2017 7:57 am

http://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/poon-time

I completely agree with all you write Gary. I don't know how others do it, but I use a different grip to try to lock the wrist. I normally cast V grip, palm forward for lighter tackle but as soon as I throw the 12 I go thumb-on-top and use the shoulder to block the movement Rajeff-style.

I'd be interested to hear what others do?

Thanks!!
Paul
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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#2

Post by James9118 » Tue May 16, 2017 5:27 pm

I stick with the v-grip and I use the same amount of wrist as I would with a #7. What I do differently is switch emphasis to my hauling arm, so it doesn't feel like I'm doing much more work with my rod arm.

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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#3

Post by SevenWeight » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:48 pm

Paul Arden wrote:http://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/poon-time

I completely agree with all you write Gary. I don't know how others do it, but I use a different grip to try to lock the wrist. I normally cast V grip, palm forward for lighter tackle but as soon as I throw the 12 I go thumb-on-top and use the shoulder to block the movement Rajeff-style.

I'd be interested to hear what others do?

Thanks!!
Paul
A few weeks ago a friend took me out to chase adult migrating tarpon, which I'd never done. I had never even held a 12-weight previously but gave it a go! No fish hooked, but it was certainly an eye-opener. Afterward he lent me a 12-weight outfit to practice with.

The thumb-on-top approach certainly helps and led me to think of a parallel in another sport. In golf, there is a term for a type of grip called a "long thumb" in which the player extends his/her left thumb farther along the grip (assuming a right-handed player). It has the effect of dampening wrist action and, in golf terminology, "weakening" the grip. in a weak grip, the golfer would only see one-and-a-half, or at most two, knuckles on the left hand when in the set-up position. Wrist action is constrained to a more narrow range of motion, potentially reducing wrist cock at the top of the swing and rotation of the hand when striking the ball. I find that the long thumb on a large fly rod like a 12-weight has a very similar effect, serving to block an overly-wristy stroke, and seems to tighten up tracking as well. I'm combining this with gripping the rod farther from the reel so I can run the handle along my forearm. There's still plenty of "play" in the stroke to attempt a late rotation by tightening pinky and ring finger.

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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#4

Post by WJC » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:47 am

I'd be interested to hear what others do?
I'm not nearly strong enough to use a thumb on top grip, so I use a palm forward. I also choke up on the handle and hook my index finger around and under the blank just above the handle. That increases the leverage in my favor by about 4 inches.

But more importantly, it puts the fighting butt ball in the slack forearm muscle (during the backcast) just above the elbow where it nests in comfortably between the radius and ulna in that flacid forearm muscle where it never slides off.

So I would say the strain on my wrist is in single digit ounces on the backcast.

I fish nights primarily, "blind" casting through the outgoing tide with a sink tip because none of the people I fish with except one casts well enough to catch anything during the day. And he doesn't like the heat during the day. But they all prefer catching fish to frustrating themselves trying to throw at lockjaw mammas including him. Also, later in the season, we usually get a few nice bonus permit. They start getting active around the beginning of July.

Since May1st I've fished 22 tides. Usually, quite a bit of the tide is taken up with fish fights, but I have no problem casting through an entire outgoing with that grip despite passing 71 this past spring and dropping 42 pounds of muscle since my prime. What's left is in pretty good shape though from running production milling machines manually rather than using the power feeds alternating arms, and choking up on the bending machine handle to make it harder to bend parts with my hauling arm. Running in 40,000 machine screws a year with an air driver doesn't hurt the forward cast muscles either.

The only shoulder/arm/wrist problems I ever have is from typing at the computer all day long . But one tide of casting fixes it. My arms always feel most healthy during the tarpon migration.

Cheers,
Jim

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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#5

Post by WJC » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:16 am

I meant to add that a lightweight like me needs a long stroke on both back and forward casts to build momentum prior to the start of rotation. The thumb on top does not allow for that on the backcast without ruining the tracking.

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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#6

Post by sms » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 am

12 is a toothpick! I love to cast them, they feel so nice and light. I probably use palm forward.
The heavy stuff I do palm first (TFO Bluewater MD rod + 430g reel + backing and casting 500-600gr lines, in the video 550gr Rio Leviathan intermediate). This is beasty stuff to cast and fight a fish.

The (too) stiff butt sections on heavy rods is why on them I am going for something bendier. And since I fight fish (tunoids) brutally I need a ton of lighting power and durability (this example is for 10wt thou - the rod tip and rod butt angle is more than 90 degrees) :p :ninja: :yeahhh: :
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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#7

Post by WJC » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:33 pm

HI SMS,
Your video looks like you had a blast. Thanks for posting that even though it makes me jealous.

I actually made a short video for a friend who is re-making an old "Saltwater Fly Casting" video he filmed 20 or more years ago. He is pretty adamant about teaching and espousing only the thumb on top grip, whereas I think that the advantages and disadvantages of different grips should be pointed out to newcomers at the appropriate time.

So I took a short video, after buying a Gopro, of a pickup and laydown backcast using one of my tooth pic 12wt rigs weighing over 28 ounches, using the palm forward grip I always use with the 12's.

In slow motion, especially, the end of the stroke clearly shows the pressure on the upper forearm during rotation by the reaction of the rod butt as the rod straightens and goes into counterflex.

I agree with him about catching the rearward line momentum at the turnover by shooting line into the backcast while, at the same time, using a forward transition move to get the arm into a stronger position for the rotation. And then, not before the translation, clamping off, rotatating and hauling.

That last is not shown on a pickup and laydown video, of course: however, the reserve energy at turnover is pretty obvious from the reaction of the rod at the end. I realize that the long carries used in distance competitions use up most of this extra energy, but for fishing casts I think it speeds up the casting cadence, makes for a better rate of acceration and gets the line out there quicker.

The line used in this clip is an old 550gr. 30' head by either Rio or SA on a Gulfstream and a 12wt. Sage RPLX. It's a 25MB mp4 format, and I don't do vimeo or youtube, so it may take a bit to download. If anyone watches it, you will notice that I use the "pelican posture" (aka the "armpit-cooler" finish) at the end of the cast when playing in the road in front of my house. That is not my normal fishing posture.

Image

http://www.miterclamp.com/videos/grip_backcast_12wt.mp4

Cheers,
Jim

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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#8

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:00 pm

Have you measured the pull at the fly Sakari? That's quite a bend! I've been measuring pulls from different angles quite a lot recently!

Cheers, Paul
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sms
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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#9

Post by sms » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:34 pm

Drag setting was around 35N if I recall right and it was at that (just barely giving line).
This is 77N (7,9kg weight):
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/ ... f0e277.JPG
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Casting 12WT Rods - Gary's page!

#10

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:27 am

I bet that was hard work! So about 3.5KG. That wouldn't stop a Snakehead! :)

I've measured 7-8lbs with a 45 degree angle on a 9-weight (and only a few pounds at over 90 degrees).

Cheers, Paul
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