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Pre-Load
Moderators: Paul Arden, stesiik
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As far as o/h casting is concerned I'm with Paul. If you create so called pre load you have missed the optimum time to start the stroke and the cast goes to rat shit. Personally I believe (for distance casting) that the optimum point to start the next stroke is just before the loop has straightened because I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the ticking we get is from the front taper and leader tucking downwards on turnover. If I hit the stroke just pre turnover I can nearly always eliminate ticking and get much better turnover on the final delivery.
I get better results with shooting heads this way as well.
Mike
I get better results with shooting heads this way as well.
Mike
It's fly casting Jim, but not as we Know it.
- Bernd Ziesche
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Load Load LoadAitor wrote:Those extreme conditions gave a very slight load to the rod only perceptible thanks to the slow motion.
A very small amount of rod bend is how much load (stored energy)? Nothing compared to what happens during the cast!
What are we talking about here, if you need an extra tackle set up to make the rod very slightly pre-bend?
I think we are on a dead ends track here!
To me the better tracks are a) line tension (how straight can we keep the line) and b) matching rod hand path to the size of arc (in the first place) and rod bend (in the second place) in order to achieve the desired line speed and tip path.
No, I don't need pre-bend to make a proper cast to happen! And I am pretty sure YOU agree since a long time already, right?
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.
The first cast is always the best cast.
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Bernd,
I have been teaching that "the rod as a big spring" concept is bullshit since, at least, 10 years, and I think to remember seeing "rod load" being mentioned lots of times over here at the time.
That quote is from a reply to Ed Ward here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=262&start=30
What I was trying to explain there is that if rod bend doesn't exist in D loop formation in the first place, it is impossible for it to get any effect in the cast.
I have been teaching that "the rod as a big spring" concept is bullshit since, at least, 10 years, and I think to remember seeing "rod load" being mentioned lots of times over here at the time.
That quote is from a reply to Ed Ward here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=262&start=30
What I was trying to explain there is that if rod bend doesn't exist in D loop formation in the first place, it is impossible for it to get any effect in the cast.
- Bernd Ziesche
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Hi Mike,
that makes sense to me, too. If we wait fully for the very final turnover, the line sack also increases usually. That increases the dangle as well...
Hi Masa,
from what I have seen in the WC most casters were using stiffer rods than I would choose to fish for Atlantic Salmon even on big rivers. Personally I too cast further with the stiffer ones. That is also Skagit casting.
Usually the line weight is pretty heavy because that makes casting the huge intruder flies easier. The rod is kept reltively soft in order to have it bend on the fish. But using a stiffer rod on the same head will make me cast further simply. It's just I would not want that rod for my fishing.
Anyway without measuring rotational speed vs. tip speed and then compareing different outfits it feels risky to me to make any final statements/conclusions.
All I can say is, that quite some distance casters SH & DH tend for the stiffer rods while many fishermen tend to keep it not too/not that stiff.
(Already can hear Lasse telling me, that he likes to fish the stiff ones, too. )
Greets
Bernd
that makes sense to me, too. If we wait fully for the very final turnover, the line sack also increases usually. That increases the dangle as well...
Hi Masa,
from what I have seen in the WC most casters were using stiffer rods than I would choose to fish for Atlantic Salmon even on big rivers. Personally I too cast further with the stiffer ones. That is also Skagit casting.
Usually the line weight is pretty heavy because that makes casting the huge intruder flies easier. The rod is kept reltively soft in order to have it bend on the fish. But using a stiffer rod on the same head will make me cast further simply. It's just I would not want that rod for my fishing.
Anyway without measuring rotational speed vs. tip speed and then compareing different outfits it feels risky to me to make any final statements/conclusions.
All I can say is, that quite some distance casters SH & DH tend for the stiffer rods while many fishermen tend to keep it not too/not that stiff.
(Already can hear Lasse telling me, that he likes to fish the stiff ones, too. )
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.
The first cast is always the best cast.
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Pre-Load
Line sag avoidance is what makes sense. Because if, as Mike says, the problem of ticking is due to the leader tucking downwards, starting the forward cast before straightening is the equivalent of pulling the rod tip backwards for making exactly that: a tuck cast.Bernd Ziesche wrote:Hi Mike,
that makes sense to me, too. If we wait fully for the very final turnover, the line sack also increases usually. That increases the dangle as well...
- Lasse Karlsson
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Hi Bernd
I'm just the odd one
Aitor, what happens if you make a very fast backcast, then cushions it just at turnover?
Cheers
Lasse
I'm just the odd one
Aitor, what happens if you make a very fast backcast, then cushions it just at turnover?
Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
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Lasse,
By cushioning it you mean drifting?
By cushioning it you mean drifting?
- Paul Arden
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I don't think your timing is pre-Loop Straight, Mike. You may forward drift Pre-LSP but if you apply significant force a number of things will happen, and none of them good. I can video you in Scotland to show this.
I don't believe that the dangle comes from a tuck, rather the tip path rising at the beginning of the CS because of the rod angles involved, which in turn sets up an early transverse wave that runs along the line.
Cheers, Paul
I don't believe that the dangle comes from a tuck, rather the tip path rising at the beginning of the CS because of the rod angles involved, which in turn sets up an early transverse wave that runs along the line.
Cheers, Paul
- Lasse Karlsson
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Completly agree!Paul Arden wrote: I don't believe that the dangle comes from a tuck, rather the tip path rising at the beginning of the CS because of the rod angles involved, which in turn sets up an early transverse wave that runs along the line.
Cheers, Paul
My distance coach pointed it out to me about 7 years ago, that I dropped the rod to much upon starting forward, causing a wave to travel down my line and then tick... She still tells me when ever I tick... When Bernd's around I make sure not to
Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
- Lasse Karlsson
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That's one thing drifting can do yes You could also wait with feeding back the line.Aitor wrote:Lasse,
By cushioning it you mean drifting?
Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts