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Italian style of casting...

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Italian style of casting...

#11

Post by guest » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:14 am

Hi Andrew, all of my short rods are glass or bamboo. I guess you could use them for the presentation casts but I borrow one of Maliks rods when I fish with him when in the Alps because my short rods are 2 piece which are not so easy to put in my case. I’ve struggled to learn the new stuff and fish at the same time so have tried to practice with my #5 Method because I want to go there ready to fish. What I found was that I was starting to get some twinges in my elbow and I haven’t had a problem before. I build a rod most winters because I enjoy it, this one will be used for practicing and fishing when I go back to Switzerland, however, I don’t see any reason that you couldn’t use your existing kit. I’m no expert, so would suggest asking someone that knows what they’re talking about.

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Vince
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Italian style of casting...

#12

Post by andrewparkeruk » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:21 am

Vince, from having fished with Malik and having used his rod(s), is TLT tackle dependant, and if so, what tackle?

I simply can't remember but is it: shorter, stiffer rod, lightweight DT line, lots of linespeed? Are all of these components necessary, or have you to been able to extract the essence and apply it to any trouty, dry fly outfit?

Cheers, Andrew

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#13

Post by guest » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:07 pm

Dunno Andrew, I am only an egg. I suspect it is the same as any other casting in that it is primarily caster ability but correct tackle selection can make it easier to achieve. I have used a very limited set of the casts at close range with with my glass rod and caught fish. Malik has very kindly sent me a DT line to try and I will run a micrometer over it, to see how it compares to other lines I have at that weight.

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Italian style of casting...

#14

Post by Merlin » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:19 am

Hi Andrew

A typical TLT rod is short, fast, and underlined. The development of these rods was made to correspond to typical fishing conditions: a small alpine bushy river with many currents and little place for a long drift. The loop must be tight and the cast must be fast with maximum tension in the line to allow a complete rollover before landing on water. Typically, fishing needs pocket size precision to cast under branches for example. This is a side cast with the line travelling down to the water, the fly landing first (ideally, but there are many possible variations depending on the location of the fish). The cast is a kind of 170 one on the side, with a long translation, the loop being shaped at the very end, during the “thrust” part of the cast (forward push).

The Italian Bamboo Rodmakers Association designed a rod with the cooperation of the late Roberto Pragliola, the inventor and guru of TLT casting. The rod is 7’2 for a 5.5 line under the current standards, but it is used with a #3 line. If you look for a graphite rod, it will likely be a #6 rod between 7’ and 7’6. The leader must be rather long by comparison to rod length (e.g. more than twice). The very fast rod allows shaping tiny loops, but do not expect a “relax casting style” with that kind of tackle.

Merlin
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Italian style of casting...

#15

Post by guest » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:42 am

Hi Daniel

So to answer Andrews question, is it possible to make TLT casts without using the equipment you have specified and what changes would you make to the casting stroke to compensate for the change in equipment?

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Italian style of casting...

#16

Post by Merlin » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:22 pm

I simply can't remember but is it: shorter, stiffer rod, lightweight DT line, lots of linespeed? Are all of these components necessary, or have you to been able to extract the essence and apply it to any trouty, dry fly outfit?
So to answer Andrews question, is it possible to make TLT casts without using the equipment you have specified and what changes would you make to the casting stroke to compensate for the change in equipment?
Hi Vince

You can use the TLT casting style on any rod but then you cannot expect the same performance by comparison to a specialized rod. If the choice of tackle is limited (for any reason), then you must take a short and fast rod, and then underline it if you can (e.g. #2 instead of #4 line). A long rod (9’) is not easy to cast with that style, you (at least I) have better control with a short one. If you have nothing but a slow soft glass rod, then you will struggle a lot for little results. A soft rod will always create larger loops than a fast one even if you are able to tighten the loop with an appropriate arc adjustment. It will always be too slow to give you enough line speed for a delayed shoot, without hitting water too soon, and maybe double haul artists can compensate for line speed, but not me. There are good reasons for using a specialized tackle, you know. I can understand that Andrew would not buy a specific outfit for a limited number of TLT casting days on adequate rivers, but then he must be prepared for some frustration sometimes.

I shall always remember the day I spent on private water on river Loue (east of France) when I realized I would never reach the large trout next to a bank not so far from me, whilst I was wading deep with my 8' glass rod, casting under full coverage: the line was always landing too soon, and any attempt to increase speed was followed by a larger loop touching leaves just above and next to me, a haul being limited by water below my arms. I guess someone more skilled than me would have succeeded, but if I had a spare short stiff rod at that time in my car, I would have given it a try. It was before graphite rods came on the market.

When I was in my twenties my father asked me why I had several fly rods, so some day I took him to my best trout river in Normandy to show him the reason why.

Merlin
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Italian style of casting...

#17

Post by guest » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:01 pm

Hi Daniel

I’ve spent about 8 or 9 days fishing with TLT set ups that included conventional and purpose designed rods, I would not have rated any of them as being a #6. The purpose designed rod was a JMC rod I believe, that felt no faster for the line weight than my method #5 or cross S1 #6.
A soft rod will always create larger loops than a fast one even if you are able to tighten the loop with an appropriate arc adjustment.
Be careful, Lasse will set his videos on you. I also fish a lot with glass rods, loop size isn’t solely a function of rod material, line speed is a bit of an issue though. Delayed shoot is a matter of practice because it’s not in our normal repertoire of casts. Concerning rod length, I found the TLT stroke quite painful using the method and I’ve stopped practicing with it. It may be my technique as I’ve only had a couple of hours lessons but I don’t think so, it seems to be more a function of the swingweight of the rod and the muscle groups used in the stroke.

In my view, there’s too much focus on the TLT rods. The technique is about using long leaders to deliver quite bushy flies into fast water, which requires quite high line speeds. However, much of this fishing is at relatively short range and an awful lot of that can be achieved using conventional small stream kit. The oddity is the length of the leader on such a short rod and it requires you to sharpen up your casting. In my view, he would be better spending time and effort on learning and practicing the casting than investing in a rod, as a qualified CI it should be quite achievable for him.

Vince
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Italian style of casting...

#18

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:34 am

From what I’ve seen of the TLT it really is a function of short and relatively stiff rods. You don’t need to invest heavily in rods, and cheap rods will work nicely however the style evolved around underlining a short rod.

In the same way that Undehand Casting utilises short heads for its style, TLT is tackle orientated.

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Italian style of casting...

#19

Post by guest » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:46 am

Having done it, I’d put the rod at the bottom of the list of things to sort out. I’m fairly sure that my first trip I used a bog standard factory rod and a DT line, what was different to what I had previously done was the leader construction and the casting stroke. I wouldn’t advise someone to buy a rod to try the technique if they already have a 7’6” #3/4 rod or similar, any more than I would suggest buying a short headed line if they wanted to try underhanded casting or Spey rods and lines to make a Spey cast. We’ll end up taking a golf trolley with kit in to make a cast if we go down this path.

Which cheap 7’6” #6 would you or Daniel recommend?

Vince
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Italian style of casting...

#20

Post by Merlin » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:35 am

Hi Vince

In case I need a particular rod for such streams, I take my 7'6 "#2 graphite rod which is pretty fast, although something like 15% less fast than a TLT rod for the same line. Then it is a matter of leader length and fly choice to fit the fishing situation.

This 7'6 #2 is a 2 piece G rod which Harry Wilson offered to me after he retired and sold his company (Scott).

I don't know but there are likely fast light rods on the market today. Then comes the question of price.

Merlin
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