overloading

[Michael Rebholz]

hi folks,

can someone tell me what an overloaded rod is?

cheers and tight lines

Michael

[James9118]

One that ends up in more pieces than it started in?

[Graeme H]

Sounds about right.

[Paul Arden]

I've always said that an overloaded rod is a broken rod, but really I think there are two meanings to this term and mostly when people talk about overloaded they mean the other.

So I would say, 1) an overloaded rod is a broken rod and 2) an "overloaded rod" is one that bends more and/or recovers less quickly, for a given force, than the user would like.

I think that the second use of the term is very misleading. After all a rod that is designed to be softer could fit this description of overloaded. But I think that's what most people mean when they talk about over and underloaded and it undoubtedly goes back to days when the rod was considered to be predominantly a spring and not a lever.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Broken rod.

Paul, are you saying that any time those people cast a DT and extend it they experience that overloaded feel?
Mostly I hear it, when people have a heavier line on a rod than they are believing it can cast perfectly

Cheers
Lasse

[Magnus]

Paul

No you have not always said "an overloaded rod is a broken rod" - now prove I'm wrong

In regular casting have you ever managed to load a rod so heavily, either by line class or by length of carry, that the rod broke? I haven't. I look at the rod breaking clips Tim Rajeff filmed and there is simply no credible way a caster could bend a rod that far. Even by shocking a rod I can't see how a caster could break a rod against a fly line. maybe by tethering the end?
So, the idea that when we use the terms overloaded rod as a casting term we mean 'to the point where the rod breaks' seems like nonsense - that use can apply when playing a fish or lifting weights with the rod attached to a forklift - but that usage is surely not valid as a casting term.

So, take a soft 8ft #3 and match it with a 10/11 spey line - and tell me that rod doesn't feel a) crap and b) overloaded - as you throw over 100ft!

Magnus

(I think we may use the term 'overloaded' as a synonym for 'overlined' - ie using a line class heavier that the maker recommended - like a Hot torpedo #5 with a #6 line on it - no, wait, that's the fishing version of the HT?)

[Lasse Karlsson]

Magnus, does a 6'6" rod Tim Rajeff wrote 3 on the side with a 12 outbound on qualify?

https://vimeo.com/35338719

The overlined thing really only applies to individuals, what I think is overlined, you might think is underlined or vice verca, rarely see people agree on it from an educate point of view, only ever from guru perspective

Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/howhurt.shtml

That's an overloaded rod in the gif

[Magnus]

Hi Lasse

Using the engineers definition of overload - loaded beyond elastic limit - then add the normal assumption that carbon composites have no plasticity beyond the elastic limit, and simply break when overloaded...no that 6'6" rod is exactly not an example of overload. The Gif may be an example, assuming the rod was not damaged, put together right and there was no dynamic shock involved.

Using over- and under-lined in an objective sense simply says above and below the line recommended by the maker. In a subjective sense it might be about personal preference. However, if the line with which you get max distance from a rod is not the same as the line Paul gets max distance from the same rod - that would be subjective and it would be objectively measured.

Magnus

[Paul Arden]

Hi Magnus,

Yes I have broken rods casting with too much line weight, as well as by casting them with great force I remember the time we tried to break your three weight in Coggeshall, but actually this was your 3WT and I now believe not applicable to all rods. I think it's probably a lower modulus? My breakages since then is actually rather a long list, includes half a dozen Helios rods and a couple of SL prototype blanks amongst others. Mike broke many Hardy rods through casting and had quite a run on them. I was with Tim one time in Idaho Falls where he bent one of his rods from butt to tip (there is a POD image of this that I can dig out if you want!). Now it's going to be difficult to break any rod that bends butt to tip - but I don't think all carbon rods bend butt to tip!

No you have not always said "an overloaded rod is a broken rod" - now prove I'm wrong

Actually I can't because you are right! I looked through an absolutely terrible article that appeared in FFFT and was written before I bought the Sexyloops domain. So shifting my viewpoint to overload meaning a broken rod must have occurred later. I'll check through the archived Board but the search function isn't working for me and I'll debug it. No doubt its first use occurs on the Board prior to this however. I certainly remember it being my answer for the CCI test where overloading was one of the questions.

Paul, are you saying that any time those people cast a DT and extend it they experience that overloaded feel?
Mostly I hear it, when people have a heavier line on a rod than they are believing it can cast perfectly

Yes I'm saying that is the general usage of the term and "overload" is subjective and related to feel. It's common for many people to match line class to what is written on the rod and say that it "doesn't load". This means that in their minds it is "underloaded".

Cheers, Paul

PS crossposted with Magnum. I think I agree.