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Grip shift

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Mangrove Cuckoo
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Grip shift

#1

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:24 pm

While I am enjoying the theoretical discussions of late, I do have a technique question...

Can someone describe how to perform the "grip shift" between the back cast and presentation stroke during tournament/distance cast?

A reference to literature or web page would be OK too.

Thanks!
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Lee Cummings
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Re: Grip shift

#2

Post by Lee Cummings » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:50 pm

I think for me it goes like this.

From a Vee gripped back cast ( the butt of the rod was braced against the forearm), the fingers/hand is relaxed shortly after the line is sent away on your desired trajectory.........

The handle of the rod after this point is held lightly with thumb and base of the first finger and will raise to a new position at the base of all the fingers, ready for delivering forward.

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Lee

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Paul Arden
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Re: Grip shift

#3

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:01 pm

Hi Gary, it’s in the comp distance video here https://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/compe ... ance-cast/ and a few mentions at the bottom of the page as well :)

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Grip shift

#4

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:04 pm

Don't think its described in litterature, or on on any webpages🙂
The way I learned it, was pointer on top for the backcast, then thump on top for the forward stroke done in the brief pause between back and forward strokes. Then shift back to pointer in top after the forward stroke etc.
Think just about everyone has now moved to v grip both ways, I know I have...

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Re: Grip shift

#5

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:10 pm

So... maybe I'm not confused?

The finger to thumb shift is really not the "thing" now?

Is this essentially what most of y'all are doing:

While maintaining essentially a V grip, the "grip-shift" sequence is allowing the rod handle to fall away from the wrist brace (back cast) / then the handle moves up into all the fingers (loosely) while slipping / and finished by closing the hand during max rotation... that latter part is like what Mac calls "pulling"???
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Graeme H
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Re: Grip shift

#6

Post by Graeme H » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:12 pm

I made a video of my casting 2 years ago to investigate any errors. The is "grip shifting" shown in it. Just modifying the thumb position, really.

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Re: Grip shift

#7

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:36 am

While maintaining essentially a V grip, the "grip-shift" sequence is allowing the rod handle to fall away from the wrist brace (back cast) / then the handle moves up into all the fingers (loosely) while slipping / and finished by closing the hand during max rotation...
Image
It depends a little bit on what the caster is doing on the delivery. If the caster is using extension on the backcast and flexion on the forward then everything is straightforward. Ben Dixon certainly was doing this some years ago. Rick Hartman on the other hand - from much further back - was delaying rotation on the forward cast, with the rod "cradled' in his fingers (which is why Dan McCrimmon called it "the cradle grip"). For this to happen the wrist can be used a little bit as radial deviation. Two different planes of the hand, so the elbow has to rotate slightly between strokes to accommodate this. To learn it I used the "grip shift" - finger pointing backcast/cradle grip forward cast - and I also still teach it that way too. You can ultimately take a short cut between the two and minimise the shift, however if you are using the butt-under-forearm backcast and cradle grip forward cast there is always a grip shift, no matter how small.

I've never actually tried teaching anyone to make the small changes without making the big changes first. But there again when I've taught it, it has occurred during learning the 170 stopless cast. And that's all big teaching too: superwide arc, line on deck backwards and forwards, weight shift, grip shift. Some of the other teams, or individuals, may have come at it a different way - I don't know. Or they may be teaching it differently now. But for me that's the method I use; I like to go from big to small. Make a big adjustment and then learn to tweak it down later.

The grip shift if pretty nifty for Spey casting too by the way! :D

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Re: Grip shift

#8

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:49 am

Hi Graeme,

I think you can see the change of wrist motions between the forward and back quite clearly on your video. There is a bit more of a grip shift if you want to keep the reel in plane with your casting plane on the backcast. On the delivery if you were to half open your fingers and push the rod grip higher with the thumb this would help delay rotation slightly longer - that's the "cradle grip".

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Graeme H
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Re: Grip shift

#9

Post by Graeme H » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:33 pm

Thanks Paul. I've tried several times to make that change but I just don't have the strength to make it work. I wish I could though because it could deliver an even later rotation in the cast.

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Re: Grip shift

#10

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:57 pm

That’s strange Graeme. Strength for which part?

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