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Leader design and wind knots

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clayed21085
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Leader design and wind knots

#1

Post by clayed21085 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:17 am

Can leader design contribute to wind knots even when you're appearing to throw open loops? For example having a not so gradual taper to your leader having too much of an hinging effect. I'll get that occasional random knot even when my cast looked fine, or it seemed ( late tailing loop?) I'd like to see one form in as slow motion.

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Graeme H
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Re: Leader design and wind knots

#2

Post by Graeme H » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:58 am

I have filmed this happening in slow motion but I don't have a great video to show. (I'll post the best one I have later tonight).

The knot from a tailing loop occurs when the crossing of the legs allows the end of the system (normally the fly and tippet) to wrap around the rod leg. The interaction of the legs creates friction that slows the progress of the loop, the fly overtakes the collision point and ends up inside the crossed legs, making a knot.

You may be getting a tail on your back cast if you aren't seeing them on the front cast.

Cheers,
Graeme
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Paul Arden
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Re: Leader design and wind knots

#3

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:29 am

Yes! Whenever anyone asks about tailing loop problems and/or wind knots my first question is always about the leader. A very short leader can be a problem. Lack of taper is a problem, ie a leader of just tippet! Or indeed too steep a taper.

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Graeme H
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Re: Leader design and wind knots

#4

Post by Graeme H » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:05 am

Here's that video:

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Leader design and wind knots

#5

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:32 pm

Graeme H wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:05 am
Here's that video:

Graeme, that is one of the best clips in flycasting!
Thanks for sharing! 😎

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Lasse
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Graeme H
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Re: Leader design and wind knots

#6

Post by Graeme H » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:40 pm

Thanks Lasse. I'm not sure whether to be happy or not that one of my best clips shows some of the "worst" casting I've filmed ... ;)
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Paul Arden
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Re: Leader design and wind knots

#7

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:28 pm

Yep that’s excellent, Graeme!!! I’m sure also that once the conditions are set it’s even easier to knot while false casting because of the line reversing direction. I suspect that this is the main cause of knots right at the end of the leader for example; ie they are not cast completely “through” but tightened through at the start of the next cast.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Leader design and wind knots

#8

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:29 pm

Incidentally I think that is the first example video of tailing loops forming “wind knots“ that I have seen! Great stuff!!
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Graeme H
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Re: Leader design and wind knots

#9

Post by Graeme H » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:34 pm

I shot the video ages ago but realised I wasn't getting "good knots" because my leader was too short. A longer leader lets the fly move with less input from the tangling line.

Been meaning to go out again with a longer leader to really get them going but every Sunday is busy lately. Next opportunity will be mid November because I'm fishing in Exmouth from this week on. :yeahhh: :yeahhh: :yeahhh: :yeahhh:

Cheers,
Graeme

Did I mention :yeahhh: ?
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clayed21085
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Re: Leader design and wind knots

#10

Post by clayed21085 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:07 pm

I agree with paul, you took the initiative to upload the very first video of knots actually forming! Luckily my casting doesn't generate that bad of closed loops, I see them mostly at the end of my casts, and their isn't a collision, usually just a crossing.
Although the fly will occasionally catch on the line\leader connection.I also want to mention another possible outcome of knots, and that is when your leader falls into a pile at the end of the cast, especially if the fly lands first with a loop on top, the line is pulled taught pulling loop over fly. This may explain why I have less issues with heavier fly sinking below everything.

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