PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!

Pull the line first.

Moderators: Paul Arden, stesiik

User avatar
Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3896
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

Re: Pull the line first.

#31

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:29 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:06 am
I get the joke, but I was surprised to find that your peak haul speed on the forward cast was closer to MAV while Lasse's was closer to RSP1. Thus the timing of the peak of the haul speed (and/or peak acceleration) may be quite forgiving.
Yes I was and still am surprised by this too Gordy. It’s interesting that the snakehead shot doesn’t use the unloading of the rod to generate increased line speed either. There is something here that I’m not fully understanding. Maybe it’s that the energy left in a slightly bent rod is not so important and can be sacrificed in preference to line trajectory at the front of the loop?

The other thought I have is that total distance achieved is a relationship between carry and shoot. If you throw it faster it unrolls quicker and not necessarily further - or at least there is a point of diminishing returns. It’s possible that loop integrity is simply far more important than line speed. There are quite a few distance casters who feel that they “float the loop” out.

I really need to shoot some more video with a marked line.

Cheers, Paul
Hi Paul

If the unbending of the rodtip deviates from the trajectory of the line, you should have let go sooner. Otherwise the line unroll before travelling as far as it could have. Spring, pffft.

Best loop integrity doesn't go anywhere without velocity.
You need both, it's a high performance car trying to go all out on a frozen lake. Wanna go fast, do it smooth and straight. Longest casts have the best of both worlds, looking forward to someone getting there!

You need to take a week of and start shooting with all the clips you ha e to do, start with soft and stiff please, it's been a month 😉

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Pull the line first.

#32

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:25 am

If the unbending of the rodtip deviates from the trajectory of the line, you should have let go sooner. Otherwise the line unroll before travelling as far as it could have.
So do you think that your haul is peaking earlier than mine? I realise we only have two examples here but your haul was peaking later closer to RSP. Obviously we need to look at this. I’m surprised at how early mine was, particularly since I know these were good casts that were being filmed.

It’s not easy to film here. Much easier in a few weeks when I’m living on the boat again. I’ll find a way of fixing the camera and I should be able to cast off the roof of the boat. Can’t wait!! :yeahhh:

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

John Waters
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Pull the line first.

#33

Post by John Waters » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:33 am

Hi Paul, I agree with Lasse, you need both loop shape and speed. The best place to see this is the top 38 gram single handed casters because of the gear they use. Very sharp loops with the rod leg as close as possible to being parallel to the ground. The best fly distance coaches have a philosophy based upon getting rod plane and tip trajectory entrenched, and then, it is all about the haul - the focus being on the start, the finish and the speed generated. It is not so visible in the fly casting events, also because of the gear, however, late on the practice day in Cumbria, I saw a Eric Forsberg (apologies if I have the spelling incorrect) get close to what I would describe as a super blend of loop shape and speed, when he was training for the Sea Trout Distance. A pleasure to watch.

John

Bianchetti Ivan
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:25 am

Re: Pull the line first.

#34

Post by Bianchetti Ivan » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:53 am

I filmed my action, watching the tests made, out of ten throws 2 enough but fighting against the habit, the action was between one type of launch and the other, I think I will abandon the idea, my elbow does not allow me to insist, I was unable to upload it (file extension not supported)😢

Bianchetti Ivan
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:25 am

Re: Pull the line first.

#35

Post by Bianchetti Ivan » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:19 am

Hi Smeriglio
Thank you.

User avatar
Merlin
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: France

Re: Pull the line first.

#36

Post by Merlin » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:37 am

Io sono mago Merlino, Ivan :sorcerer:
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

Bianchetti Ivan
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:25 am

Re: Pull the line first.

#37

Post by Bianchetti Ivan » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:42 am

Perdonami😢, google mi dava smeriglio😨

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Pull the line first.

#38

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:09 am

You can either upload to YouTube Ivan, and use the embed button on the Board. Or drop box it to me and I’ll upload it.

I’ll tell you another interesting observation, John, most distance casters use around 80% effort on the first cast and often it’s the longest!

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Pull the line first.

#39

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:28 pm

Very sharp loops with the rod leg as close as possible to being parallel to the ground.
I think under zero wind or a tail wind conditions the trajectory of the fly leg should be inclined. For this reason I aim to throw my backcast to straighten below the horizontal on the backcast and about 30 degrees above on the forward cast. Headwinds of course will see the backcast higher and the forward cast angled lower, tilted towards the target on the water.

Here is photo of me that Bernd shot in Norway a few years ago.
DE978604-51EF-42B5-89C4-328A3A023D08.jpeg
I’m not an expert by any standards with shooting heads. I only cast them in competition and never practise - I fish them only about once every five years!

What has interested me for a long time now is throwing the MED for distance. Here we have a 90’ +/-4’ carry. The amount of line being shot I think is mostly related to the loop unrolling and not the speed at which it unrolls. How the loop unrolls is determined in part by line speed of course. High line speed means that the loop turns over quicker. But what I don’t know is if it will it shoot more line while it unrolls when thrown faster? There certainly will be a difference with the amount of line that will be shot after the loop has unrolled and is still travelling trough the air (hence the inclined trajectory on delivery).

Shooting heads I think are different but I’ve often heard casters talking about the loop looking like a number 7 and “floating out” giving their longest casts.

Don’t get me wrong, I think line speed is important but it’s also quite possible that optimum speed is not simply maximum speed. Something to play with anyway.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Pull the line first.

#40

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:25 pm

[media] [/media]

Ivan’s video :cool:
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

Post Reply

Return to “Flycasting”