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Stroke length in relation to style

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#31

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:26 pm

Tlt/flip flop/andersson times two...

Style or technique?

And sure, have a whole demo centered around it 😉


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Lasse
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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#32

Post by nicholasfmoore » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:06 pm

Hi All,

I think that's a very good idea! Maybe have two main categories, push + pull :D

This video is very good, have a look at 2:00 in if you haven't already seen it.

All the best

Nick


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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#33

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:09 pm

nicholasfmoore wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:06 pm
Hi All,

push + pull :D

All the best

Nick
What's the difference?

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Lasse
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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#34

Post by nicholasfmoore » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:01 am

A pulling stroke would be no elbow/arm extension, like you have a ball lodged in between your elbow (bicep and forearm), so your whole arm moves up and down. Pushing would involve extending the arm out. Would you agree? :D

All the best

Nick

John Waters
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#35

Post by John Waters » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:24 am

Hi Nick,

I view rotating the forearm, either forward or backward, as a pulling motion. The difference between pulling and pushing is one of perception, hence I agree with Lasse, above. The object we are moving is either behind, or in front of our body and we are moving it either to the front of, or behind our body. I view a shot-put action as a pushing action because the object we are moving starts in a position in front of the body, and we move it further forward of our body.

John

Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#36

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:25 pm

In the video I was surprised to see how hard Jerry appeared to work to make that 100' cast, especially since he later says it is an 8 wt.

Was it a push or pull? To my eyes I would say more pull?

I met him years ago and watched him cast intently. At the time I thought he possessed a unique ability to accelerate then stop within a fraction of his stroke, and I don't think I have ever seen anyone else come close. Sage had just released a new rod at that time but I forget which one (probably TCR or TCX) and I admitted I could not cast it well at all (too fast for my slow stroke).

With his help, eventually, I was casting it decently... but I kept asking him to cast so I could watch. I think he is one of the most impressive casters I've seen, and his "style" is something I do not have the ability to copy.
“Very simple man. Catching fish makes me happy. Scaringly simple.”

Håvard Stubø

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#37

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:47 pm

nicholasfmoore wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:01 am
A pulling stroke would be no elbow/arm extension, like you have a ball lodged in between your elbow (bicep and forearm), so your whole arm moves up and down. Pushing would involve extending the arm out. Would you agree? :D

All the best

Nick
So everyone is a pusher, gotcha 😉

Your definition is not going to fly even with the ones advocating pulling above all else!

If one leads with the elbow (forward stroke) then one is usually considered to be a puller, leading with the hand, pusher. In both cases the rod is pulling the line regardless of your bodily inclinations. Then if we look at a backcast a d all bets are of. Pullers ie the down people, ie let gravity help you drop your arm and let the rod do the work BS squad tend to forget det that it goes up in the backcast 😉

And I would tend to agree with John.

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Lasse
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John Waters
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#38

Post by John Waters » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:40 pm

The issue I have with the term “pushing” is that it I believe it to be incongruous. If straightening the rod arm or elbow is defined as a pushing motion by instructors and authors, why do they not describe the haul as a pushing motion? After all, when they haul, do they not straighten their haul arm or elbow? So to be consistent would they not describe the forward haul motion as pushing the line?
In my opinion, authors who describe a hauled forward cast as “pulling” with the haul hand whilst “pushing” with the rod hand is a misuse of one of those terms.

John

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Graeme H
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#39

Post by Graeme H » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:09 pm

I avoid both terms. They're confusing in this context.

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Graeme
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jarmo
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Re: Stroke length in relation to style

#40

Post by jarmo » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:08 am

To me this discussion only highlights the difficulties we are facing with "styles" now.

I do not think that "pulling" and "pushing" are good terms when it comes to style, not in the way they are used. A long time ago I read somewhere (SL) that "pullers" cast by rotating their shoulder, and "pushers" by extending their elbow. These are not the same as another use of these words, "pulling the line" (drag) or "pushing the line" (early rotation followed by translation).

We already have the division w.r.t. elbow position:



But this is not sufficient either because, for example, with elbow in front you can still "push" or "pull" (here we go again). And elbow to the side can move in different ways. And elbow up late rotation can be shoulder / wrist. And all the different ways to move the body, including rotation. And...

Somehow I think no definition is going to "fly", not in my lifetime. So my first guess is just to analyze individuals. Well, I will try to do it anyway, but the results would just have been so much more better if you guys would have been interested.

I have made some interesting (video) observations regarding Siem's style, and I am going casting later today, so I will try to explore them a bit.

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