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Shooting heads

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Lasse Karlsson
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Shooting heads

#21

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:52 am

Hi Bernd

Sinking shootinghead, and quite big files, and I usually stay out, when the spinfishers run for cover...

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Lasse
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Ben_d
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Shooting heads

#22

Post by Ben_d » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:52 am

Would we all prefer different weighted lines here? Or would we maybe all end up liking the same line - rod combination while having the same purpose?
Not sure we would Bernd, why do you think this would be the case? Maybe a lack of sleep but I'm still not getting it! :D

Are you going tomake it over to Scotland for the gathering?

Cheers

Ben

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Bernd Ziesche
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#23

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:14 pm

Ben_d wrote:
Would we all prefer different weighted lines here? Or would we maybe all end up liking the same line - rod combination while having the same purpose?
Not sure we would Bernd, why do you think this would be the case?
Are you going tomake it over to Scotland for the gathering?
Hi Ben,
if not a high percentage of us would prefer (nearly) the same line (weight), then on which basement would you recommend a line weight to one of your students asking you for the best line weight (for a specific line) on his rod?

I think that both you and I could pick a line weight out of three different line weights for a specific rod and (typical or main) carry (belly) length that we would think most students would feel good about. And I would make a bet we would be spot on. :D

Will let you know as soon as possible about the SG.
Greets
B
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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#24

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:38 pm

So is the TCR5 really a six weight – you know, over here? Well that's where the arguments begin because who is to say what a 6 weight really is? Not I. It's up to the rod designer, who in this case is Jerry Siem. So the TCR5 is a 5-weight rod but the vast majority of anglers – especially those in the US and UK – would be better off using it with a 6-weight line (that's only my opinion of course).
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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#25

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:43 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:
So is the TCR5 really a six weight – you know, over here? Well that's where the arguments begin because who is to say what a 6 weight really is? Not I. It's up to the rod designer, who in this case is Jerry Siem. So the TCR5 is a 5-weight rod but the vast majority of anglers – especially those in the US and UK – would be better off using it with a 6-weight line (that's only my opinion of course).
Hi Bernd

Quite a few people would rather put a 7 weight line on that rod :)

How heavy/light a shootinghead would you put on a tcr 5? Say for something around 10,5 meters both floaters and sinkers.

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Lasse
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Svend
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Shooting heads

#26

Post by Svend » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:50 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:Let's assume we all would stay on the same field presenting our fluff to the target with a 5wt. TCR between medium and high distance using the 3M MED. A 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 weight would be available. Would we all prefer different weighted lines here? Or would we maybe all end up liking the same line - rod combination while having the same purpose?

I think a high percentage would choose the same line in the end :cool: .
But Bernd, why do you believe that good casters would prefer a similar rod stiffness to lineweight/length ratio when the major flycasting competitions clearly show that the opposite is the case? For example i was told that 4wt to 12wt rods were used for a given 5wt line in the world championships last year. When you look at seatrout distance it gets even more crazy if you will.

I could understand your approach if you were suggesting a rough weight/length of shootinghead to someone who's new to heads just to make sure that his or her first purchase will be in the right ballpark. But when it comes to the finer points of shootinghead fishing i think that connecting intrinsic rod power to specific weights/lengths is absurd.


Cheers, Svend

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#27

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:32 pm

Hi Svend,
I think we have to take into account some of these distance experts carry 28m MED in "high line speed" while others only carry 22m MED in lower line speed. They carry different weights in different line speeds though. If Steve Rajeff carries 28m MED in high line speed while using his small arc (extra high force due to the small arc) and I carry 22m in lower line speed while using a much wider arc (which requires less force anyway), there is no doubt Steve will have to handle more rod bend when using the same rod like me.

But let's take a WF line. 12m head outside the tip while just relaxed (average) false casting a fluff back and forth in no wind conditions. If not a high percentage of fly casters would want the same line weight on the same rod here (and instead all of them want different line weights), would this mean all rod labels recommending a line weight are completely senseless?

Personally I agree with the quote I took from the Sexyloops tackle section written by Paul a while ago.
I also agree with Akos who just told me that a lot of anglers would like to fish the HT with 6wt. lines. But the same blank is labeled as 5wt. Comp. for those geeks who aim for their longest carries and those shootouts on 5wt. lines.
For the average bear I agree a 6wt. label is well choosen for the HT.

Hi Lasse,
5wt. TCR ERN 7,6 AA 72 (SL database)
I would recommend 15-16 gramm for such floating head and 16-17 gramm for such sinking head.
16 gramm btw. matches with the new 6wt. line (12m floating head) Tellis just announced in his online shop ;). And this also matches with Paul's recommendation for the 5wt. TCR (to use a 6wt. line as an overall recommendation).

I might "underline" and use a 5wt. or even a 4wt. if I want to present a dry fly in clear calm water (on spooky fish) because it would allow me to use a shorter leader since it mostly is the end of fly line spooking the fish by splashing too much.
Or I might "upline" in case of heavy winds and huge flies.

But for the average situation I would recommend to aim for about 15-16 gramm on a floating head around 10-12m.
I agree we can find fly lines offering that weight spectrum being labeled as a 7wt. as well.
It gets tricky since line companies do not offer the same labels for the same weights. Some seem to not even have realized a difference between a specific weight on two different length.

I believe that there is a range of rod bend that feels comfortable to a high percentage of fly fishermen. And I think a rod designer often relates his recommendation on the label to that.

If I remember correct (Lasse) you (not long time ago) said most rod labels matching with most line labels for the average situation. Did that change (or did I get it wrong)?

Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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#28

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:59 pm

Svend wrote: i think that connecting intrinsic rod power to specific weights/lengths is absurd.
Cheers, Svend
Hi Svend :)
what do you think about this recommendation:
http://www.rioproducts.com/skin/summit/ ... 20Recs.pdf
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Lasse Karlsson
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#29

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:03 pm

Hi Bernd

I know at least one very good caster who recommends a 12 gram shootinghead on that TCR :)
Btw. The SL database has 3 TCR 590's and none of them has 7,6 ERN :???:
6.75 7.10 7.35 :)


And yup, I still say that the number on the blank fits nicely for most with the same number on the line. It's a general ballpark recommendation and it works....

Btw. Steve Rajeff, I'm told,use very stiff rods : ;) The top guys all use different stiffness rods, and they all carry about the same and tries to beat the record. Ronny just made it a higher goal :D

I think you should really try and get some high speed clips of delivery casts at full throttle with different stiffness rods and the same line and compare the bend.

There's not much difference with normal falsecasting between two very different rods:

[vimeo]35524148[/vimeo]

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Lasse
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Lasse Karlsson
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Shooting heads

#30

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:20 pm

Ok, just found that 7,6 ERN TCR 590 in the database along with one of 7,4...

So SL rod is a TCR :pirate:

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Lasse
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