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'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

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Paul Arden
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#31

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:47 pm

Just because the line passes the rod tip doesn’t mean I’ve made a CS. Conversely just because the line doesn’t pass the rod tip doesn’t mean I haven’t made one. These definitions are not based upon outcome. I can make a CS and the fly is stuck in a tree. No loop formed. Still a CS.

Don’t get me wrong - you *can* call it a CS according to definitions, but equally correctly you can just call the whole thing Sweep.

The purpose of the definition of CS for me is tied up with other attributes - Casting Arc, Stroke Length - neither of which I ever heard being applied to setting up a D loop.

There is no right or wrong on this IMO. If I look at a Double Spey and for example one where we pop line past the rod tip on the upward Sweep, personally I think a better description of the movements is Sweep, Sweep, Casting Stroke and not Sweep/Casting Stroke, Sweep/CS, Casting Stroke.

As another example the Snake Roll, for me that’s a circular Sweep followed by a Casting Stroke and tagging a CS on to the Sweep... well I don’t think of it when I do it, I only think of the Sweep to position the line and form the D, so there was no moment of intent to make a CS.

It’s neither here nor there of course but it’s worth pondering when you are playing with these casts.

I have held a different view - as you know Lee :) but I’m always looking to simplify my thoughts!

Cheers, Paul
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#32

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:48 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:47 pm


The purpose of the definition of CS for me is tied up with other attributes - Casting Arc, Stroke Length - neither of which I ever heard being applied to setting up a D loop.

Cheers, Paul

How do you see the difference in setting up a V loop with a longbelly line vs. setting up a D loop with a Micro skagit head?



For me theres casting angle, stroke length, timing etc. But I'll be interested in hearing how you teach it :)

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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#33

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:10 pm

I’ve never taught with a micro Skagit head, never used them, never had anyone bring them to a lesson.

Long belly -> long Sweep. That’s easy :) You can dip and accelerate or sweep up - flat - up, or just sweep up. That’s where it gets more complicated. But I’ve described the differences in the videos.

I’ve never heard anyone discuss Casting Arc or Stroke Length in the D loop arrangement. So I’d love to hear that explanation! :)

Cheers, Paul
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#34

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:58 pm

If you've never used, and never met, and never had anyone bring it, how can you then actually say anything about it?

The explantions essentially come in when describing the differences in casting different setup, and since I apperantly live somewhere where people use more than a longbelly, actually, the minority minority use longbellies here, and medium, short and very short to ridiculously short, its quite handy to know the differences 😊

So, long belly, long sweep, or high lift and short sweep or ...

Micro, short sweep, or it turn into what Paul Arden calls a backcast, and we wouldnt want that, we want what he calls a sweep😆

Book a lesson and you'll hear 😉

Why shift terminology, you lift, have a casting stroke with an appropriate angle change of the rod, then a pause, where its mostly beneficial to drift and open the angle, then a casting stroke, and Bobs your cousin and you're hopefully fishing.....

Mostly that would be lift, move the rodtip over there, change to there, then move the tip there fast, and we're fishing...

Am I the only one not thinking lift, sweep, change bodyposition, casting arc, casting stroke, trajectory, pause, forceapplication etc. when casting and fishing? They're nifty when dissecting a cast, and talking to more advanced casters and instructors, though the latter have their own take on it all, and even with two sets of definitions out there, one which doesnt work and one which mostly does, they can't agree 😂

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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#35

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:27 pm

Hi Lasse,

First you say you use it and then you say that you don’t.

So when you do use it, what casting arc adjustments do you teach between the different tackle configurations when performing the “backcast” of a D-loop?

Thanks, Paul
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#36

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:19 am

Hi Paul

That was a comment on what you said you do...🙃

Short line, small movement and little angle. Long line, bigger movement and naturally a bigger angle. Pretty straight forward.

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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#37

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:51 am

Hi Lasse,

By “bigger movement” you mean longer stroke length?

So what happens if you don’t widen the casting arc?

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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#38

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:27 pm

It’s an interesting conundrum and it’s why I don’t think this structure that we apply to the OH cast applies to D-loop set-up. Consequently I don’t see any need to involve it.
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#39

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:49 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:51 am
Hi Lasse,

By “bigger movement” you mean longer stroke length?

So what happens if you don’t widen the casting arc?

Cheers, Paul
I have to move faster, much faster.....

Cheers
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#40

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:06 pm

Well that’s an unexpected reply! Are you still holding to this “ideal”?

Cheers, Paul
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